Help!! Mel isn't doing well...

[noahrg4]

So I got a beautiful veiled chameleon about 5 weeks ago. He is the sweetest, is very adventurous and is just awesome in general. He is 7 months old, and full size yet. I got a mesh cage that is 2'x2'x3', and it seems to work well (although I know a bigger cage will be needed eventually). I have both UVB and heat lamp, and he even gets natural sunlight most days. He eats crickets, dubia roaches, and mealworms, and I spray thoroughly 3 times a day.

About two days ago I started noticing he wasn't opening his eyes as much, so I started getting worried. He also seemed non energetic, and so I watched to monitor if the issue got worse. Yesterday he barely moved at all, and his eyes would rarely open, I also noticed he is showing his "upset" colors constantly, even when sleeping. Today, it is the same, the colors are even darker and he cannot open his eyes at all. The only symptoms I see are the colors, lack of energy, and not being able to open his eyes. I try to feed him but he can't even open his eyes to eat, and won't drink, so I brought him in a warm shower with high humidity to ensure he was still getting the humidity and hydration he needs (no, he did not actually get wet by the shower, just the moisture).

I am looking for any help on what to do, he does not seem to be doing well and it is making me so sad. I think my next step will be taking him to the vet, but I wanted to make a post here first.

 

[Gloriawood]

Hi and welcome! I’m so sorry your little one isn’t feeling well. Let’s try and narrow some things down. I know you have answered some of these already, but if you could copy and paste and fill out this husbandry review form, it would be super helpful.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.



--------------



Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[noahrg4]

For sure!! I

Hi and welcome! I’m so sorry your little one isn’t feeling well. Let’s try and narrow some things down. I know you have answered some of these already, but if you could copy and paste and fill out this husbandry review form, it would be super helpful.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.



--------------



Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Sorry your little beauty isn’t doing well. How often is he sitting with his head pointing up, like in the first pic? Do you hear anything when he’s breathing? Any thick ropy saliva? The star gazing pose is usually a sign of a respiratory infection. However, I do see several things in your pics that are definitely in need of improvement and can cause problems, especially in younger chameleons. Will be waiting for you to answer the help questions.

 

[noahrg4]

Above are some photos of him, I am not home right now but will be sure to take photos when I get back, the leftmost picture is a recent one, but does not show his upset colors.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male 7 months old, had him for 5 weeks
• Handling - He likes to come out, so I leave his door open sometimes and if he comes out I make sure he doesnt fall and things like that, so I would say about 4 times a week.
• Feeding - Crickets, dubai roaches, and mealworms, all covered in calcium. I hand feed his mealworms, and for the rest its feeding jar/ free range.
• Supplements - I dust all his food with calcium, but that's it for supps.
• Watering- I mist 3 times a day, and I always see him drinking.
• Fecal Description - never tested for parasites, but his fecal is either black, or yellow/white
• History - He is from petsmart :/. I felt so bad for him so I got him.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen, 2'x2'x3'
• Lighting - lighting hours from 10am-9pm. although sometimes I shut it down early if hes sleeping. I use UVB and heat lamp which came with the chameleon kit.
• Temperature - Basking is 85-90, mid range is 75-85, and then lower in the cage it is 70ish, at night it gets down to 65-75
• Humidity- I spray several times a day, in morning, midday, and night. I do not measure the levels, I just judge it based on the cage humidity.
• Plants - 3 live plants, all safe for him. I forget the names of them, but I did extensive research to ensure they are safe.
• Placement - The cage is located in my room, low foot traffic. Top of cage is about five feet, and sunlight can get into his cage if it is sunny.
• Location - Michigan

Current Problem - The issue started with him not opening his eyes as much, but progressed into lack of energy, and darker colors. It is getting worse as well, I have thought of the possible cause and this is what I think:

a) Sometimes he likes to drink from the spray bottle, but once a little bit of water got in/ around his eye by accident. I use the repti safe to make sure the water is safe, but after this he was rubbing his eye on a branch, which was a fake branch. maybe something happened then?

Not sure, any help is much appreciated.

 

[noahrg4]

Hi and welcome. Sorry your little beauty isn’t doing well. How often is he sitting with his head pointing up, like in the first pic? Do you hear anything when he’s breathing? Any thick ropy saliva? The star gazing pose is usually a sign of a respiratory infection. However, I do see several things in your pics that are definitely in need of improvement and can cause problems, especially in younger chameleons. Will be waiting for you to answer the help questions.

This is what I thought it was originally, but he is rarely doing that. He isnt opening his mouth or having issues breathing, nor pointing his nose up. That was just a coincidence with the photo.

 

[Gloriawood]

@MissSkittles would you like to do the review or do you want me?

 

[noahrg4]

Him normally vs his recent colors, also showing the eye not being open.

 

[MissSkittles]

@MissSkittles would you like to do the review or do you want me?

That’s entirely your choice.

 

[Gloriawood]

That’s entirely your choice.

If you don’t mind then, I will do it. I can use the practice. I feel it helps me learn. But please chime in with anything I miss.

 

[Gloriawood]

I want to preface by saying that anything we say here is meant to be helpful and not judge mental. I will split this in two parts and my feedback will be in red.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male 7 months old, had him for 5 weeks
• Handling - He likes to come out, so I leave his door open sometimes and if he comes out I make sure he doesnt fall and things like that, so I would say about 4 times a week. chameleons are usually shy. So unfortunatley most of the time when they want to come out it is because something is off in their enclosure. However you will get a rare friendly one.
• Feeding - Crickets, dubai roaches, and mealworms, all covered in calcium. I hand feed his mealworms, and for the rest its feeding jar/ free range. crickets and dubia are fantastic staples! Mealworms are not so great for them and should be a rare treat if anything. I’ll attach a feeder list for you. Give BSFL a try in place of the mealworms
• Supplements - I dust all his food with calcium, but that's it for supps. Does the calcium have D3? The schedule is good. Use calcium every feeding, but make sure it has no D3. Then add in a multivitamin (I like repashy loD, it has a Jackson’s chameleon on the bottle) twice a month (one day every other week)
• Watering- I mist 3 times a day, and I always see him drinking. do you hand mist? You may add a dripper if you see him drinking a lot. They are usually shy drinkers so he is thirsty! You can poke a hole in the bottom of a solo cup with a thumb tack and set it on top of his enclosure.
• Fecal Description - never tested for parasites, but his fecal is either black, or yellow/white especially coming from petco, a parasite test would be good. We look for the urate (the white part) to be half or more white. The more yellow/orange there is means he is dehydrated.
• History - He is from petsmart :/. I felt so bad for him so I got him. uggghhh poor guy!

 

[noahrg4]

I want to preface by saying that anything we say here is meant to be helpful and not judge mental. I will split this in two parts and my feedback will be in red.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male 7 months old, had him for 5 weeks
• Handling - He likes to come out, so I leave his door open sometimes and if he comes out I make sure he doesnt fall and things like that, so I would say about 4 times a week. chameleons are usually shy. So unfortunatley most of the time when they want to come out it is because something is off in their enclosure. However you will get a rare friendly one.
• Feeding - Crickets, dubai roaches, and mealworms, all covered in calcium. I hand feed his mealworms, and for the rest its feeding jar/ free range. crickets and dubia are fantastic staples! Mealworms are not so great for them and should be a rare treat if anything. I’ll attach a feeder list for you. Give BSFL a try in place of the mealworms
• Supplements - I dust all his food with calcium, but that's it for supps. Does the calcium have D3? The schedule is good. Use calcium every feeding, but make sure it has no D3. Then add in a multivitamin (I like repashy loD, it has a Jackson’s chameleon on the bottle) twice a month (one day every other week)
• Watering- I mist 3 times a day, and I always see him drinking. do you hand mist? You may add a dripper if you see him drinking a lot. They are usually shy drinkers so he is thirsty! You can poke a hole in the bottom of a solo cup with a thumb tack and set it on top of his enclosure.
• Fecal Description - never tested for parasites, but his fecal is either black, or yellow/white especially coming from petco, a parasite test would be good. We look for the urate (the white part) to be half or more white. The more yellow/orange there is means he is dehydrated.
• History - He is from petsmart :/. I felt so bad for him so I got him. uggghhh poor guy!

I see, I appreciate all the constructive feedback, it really does help. I will make sure I implement some kind of dripper system to ensure that he is getting the moisture he needs. In regard to him wanting to come out of his cage- you could be right, and that he just might not like it in his cage. The only thing I can think of is him getting too hot, because I do notice his basking spot is REALLY hot sometimes, but I always think, well if that was the case he would just go lower in the cage? Maybe I am mistaken. The calcium does not have D3, but I will for sure make sure he gets a multivitamin supplement going forward.

This all depending on him making it, I really am not sure he barely has moved the past two days and isnt looking too well. I plan on taking him to the vet after work today, but is there anything else I can do to try and help him out? I have tried misting him with warm water, but he HATES getting sprayed unless its on his terms and he comes up to the spray bottle.

 

[Gloriawood]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen, 2'x2'x3' 2x2x4 is the minimum size for adults. Bigger is even better if you can do it.
• Lighting - lighting hours from 10am-9pm. although sometimes I shut it down early if hes sleeping. I use UVB and heat lamp which came with the chameleon kit. so this needs a bit of changing. It is super important the he has the correct UVB. Unfortunatley the chameleon kit does not include the correct lighting. You need a linear T5 High Output fixture and bulb. zoomed and Arcadia are the only two brands we reccomend. Reptizoo bulbs need changed every six months and you will need the 5.0 strength. The Arcadia lasts a year and you need the 6% strength.
• Temperature - Basking is 85-90, mid range is 75-85, and then lower in the cage it is 70ish, at night it gets down to 65-75 a bit high here. 80-85 is the max basking temp you want. Night can get down to 65ish
• Humidity- I spray several times a day, in morning, midday, and night. I do not measure the levels, I just judge it based on the cage humidity. you really need a hygrometer. If your humidity is too high then you are at risk for respitory infections.
• Plants - 3 live plants, all safe for him. I forget the names of them, but I did extensive research to ensure they are safe. make sure you remove all fake plants. Veiled chams love to munch on their plants and fake ones can be an impaction risk. The moss vines are also a risk for impaction and getting in his eye if he rubs it. You can use branches from outside. Just no sap producing ones. Wash with dawn and hot water and leave in the sun to dry and they will be good to go!
• Placement - The cage is located in my room, low foot traffic. Top of cage is about five feet, and sunlight can get into his cage if it is sunny. good. Higher is better. Height is safety to them.
• Location - Michigan

Current Problem - The issue started with him not opening his eyes as much, but progressed into lack of energy, and darker colors. It is getting worse as well, I have thought of the possible cause and this is what I think:

a) Sometimes he likes to drink from the spray bottle, but once a little bit of water got in/ around his eye by accident. I use the repti safe to make sure the water is safe, but after this he was rubbing his eye on a branch, which was a fake branch. maybe something happened then?

I’m willing to bet it’s a combination of supplements and UVB causing little ones eye issue. Make those two changes asap and I think you’ll see some improvement. Ask as many questions as you need. You can never ask too many and we love to help! Welcome to the chamily!!

 

[Gloriawood]

I see, I appreciate all the constructive feedback, it really does help. I will make sure I implement some kind of dripper system to ensure that he is getting the moisture he needs. In regard to him wanting to come out of his cage- you could be right, and that he just might not like it in his cage. The only thing I can think of is him getting too hot, because I do notice his basking spot is REALLY hot sometimes, but I always think, well if that was the case he would just go lower in the cage? Maybe I am mistaken. The calcium does not have D3, but I will for sure make sure he gets a multivitamin supplement going forward.

This all depending on him making it, I really am not sure he barely has moved the past two days and isnt looking too well. I plan on taking him to the vet after work today, but is there anything else I can do to try and help him out? I have tried misting him with warm water, but he HATES getting sprayed unless its on his terms and he comes up to the spray bottle.

I’ve seen chams in far worse condition make it. My guy was in worse condition than this when I adopted him and he’s thriving a year and a half later. I have some hope for your guy. If you have a fresh poo sample, less than 24 hours old, take it with you to the vet for parasite check. Don’t spray him directly, just the leaves in his enclosure. Good your calcium does not have D3. This is correct. And yea, as mentioned above, he is likely a bit hot. This is probably why he wants to come out.

 

[noahrg4]

I see, alright I really appreciate your help. How would I make it cooler in the cage without turning off the light? I will make sure I get the correct UVB.

 

[Gloriawood]

I see, alright I really appreciate your help. How would I make it cooler in the cage without turning off the light? I will make sure I get the correct UVB.

You can raise the fixture. Prop it up on something, anything as long as it isn’t flammable. I use a little box on either end of the fixture. Just have the edge of it propped up on the box.

 

[Gloriawood]

And please keep us posted!! Let us know what the vet says and any updates. We tend to worry about others chams as much as our own.

 

[Gloriawood]

I was just double checking my review and noticed I told you the wrong brand UVB. NOT REPTIZOO you want zoomed or Arcadia. I’m sorry for confusion!

 

[Beman]

I was just double checking my review and noticed I told you the wrong brand UVB. NOT REPTIZOO you want zoomed or Arcadia. I’m sorry for confusion!

I just edited that for you hun.

 

[ERKleRose]

@Gloriawood awesome job!
@noahrg4 make sure your calcium without D3 is also phosphorus free! That’s very important as feeders are high in phosphorus, so we use calcium to help balance that ratio. A couple more things are the two trusted uvb brands are Arcadia and Zoo Med. If possible, get the Arcadia ProT5 uvb kit with a 6% Arcadia T5 uvb bulb (you’ll replace the bulb yearly like @Gloriawood said). Make sure it is at least the length of what his biggest enclosure will be, or longer if you’ll be placing the fixture diagonally across the top of the cage. If you can’t get Arcadia, use a Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 T5 uvb bulb (replace every 6 months). The distance from the uvb bulb to the basking branch will be 8-9” away. How are you measuring your temperatures? For basking temps, you want a probed digital thermometer, with the probe placed where the top of your cham’s back is when he’s on his basking branch (make sure his heat bulb is at least 9” away or more from the basking branch)