Help Needed

[IceFyre]

Hi everyone i'm new to this forum but have a couple of questions.
Please if anyone can share some light to my problems i just hate to see
this happen. Ok let me start about a year and half ago i bought 3 veils 1 male 2 female, all went well they grew, ate did everything normally then i bred them 1st female laid 55 fertile eggs, 2nd laid 48 but only 22 was fertile i bred them out in the beginning of 2009. Then all the problems started first the second female got gravid again and died over a period of 2 months she just didnt want to eat or anything, the first female did better but she also got gravid again and battled to lay her second clutch over three days, all eggs went bad. Her third clutch she laid over a week and got worst this was now over a period of 5 months then she also died. Last week my male misteriously laid down and died over night. I now only have 8 left from the babies i kept back but dont want the same to happen to them please help!!!!!!!!
They have 5.0 uvb lights in there cages with basking spots and infrared i now have also started putting them into sun cages the whole day thinking that might help. They are all housed in single cages about 65cm x 40cm x 70cm.
Their diet consists of mainly mealworms and superworms , they also get veggies on a daily basis and occasionally flies and crickets supllemented with t-rex chameleon vitamins and calcium.
Thanks in advance

 

[Vampire.queen]

Please add more detailed info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[jannb]

I'm so sorry to hear about your chams. How old are the babies that you have now? Please fill out this form so that we can better help you.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[IceFyre]

Cages : They are pine wood with screen tops 60cm x 40cm x 70cm
Lights : Exo Terra 5.0 ,75watt Basking & Infra Red , Schedule 8-5
Temps : 21c - 35c hi low temp gauge
Humidity : 40 - 70% Spray bottle once a day
Plants : Artifical string plants
Placement : away from heavy traffic only me and my worker go to them upstairs
Height differs from 70cm to 140cm
Location : South Africa Southern Hemisphere
Chameleons : Nine months 2 males 6 females Veiled Chameleons Born 2009 Jan
Handling : As little as possible only when i take them outside to the sun cage
Feeding : Feeder worms placed in a bowl three times a week replaced as much as they would consume
Mealworms, superworms ,crickets , daily veggies gut loading worms in breeding containers with wheat bran, milk powder, oats, gem squashes
Supplements : T-Rex Chameleon Vitamins twice a week and iguana cal once a week
Watering : once to twice a day spraying and water bowl replaced three times a week
Fecal : Brown to black with white end solid
Current Problem : Scared females might die after breeding like previous ones

 

[cushcameleon]

Cages : They are pine wood with screen tops 60cm x 40cm x 70cm
Lights : Exo Terra 5.0 ,75watt Basking & Infra Red , Schedule 8-5
Temps : 21c - 35c hi low temp gauge
Humidity : 40 - 70% Spray bottle once a day
Plants : Artifical string plants
Placement : away from heavy traffic only me and my worker go to them upstairs
Height differs from 70cm to 140cm
Location : South Africa Southern Hemisphere
Chameleons : Nine months 2 males 6 females Veiled Chameleons Born 2009 Jan
Handling : As little as possible only when i take them outside to the sun cage
Feeding : Feeder worms placed in a bowl three times a week replaced as much as they would consume
Mealworms, superworms ,crickets , daily veggies gut loading worms in breeding containers with wheat bran, milk powder, oats, gem squashes
Supplements : T-Rex Chameleon Vitamins twice a week and iguana cal once a week
Watering : once to twice a day spraying and water bowl replaced three times a week
Fecal : Brown to black with white end solid
Current Problem : Scared females might die after breeding like previous ones

I'm really not to sure what caused the death of your other chameleons, but I am sorry for your losses. Here are some tips for where you can improve on your husbandry. First, offer higher quality feeders (continually feeding mealworms can put your cham at risk for impaction) and superworms are considered "treats" and should also be fed sparingly; I would focus on offering more soft-bodied worms (silkworms, butterworms, pheonix worms) along side roaches. I am unfamiliar with the supplements you are using, maybe you should use what most of the members on this site use (Rep-cal products and herptivite); also what is your supplementing schedule? Lastly, I would water much more throughout the day, the "white" part of your fecal is called the urate (white meaning hydrated, orange meaning dehydrated). From the details you included about your fecals, your chameleon does sound hydrated although I am a bit skeptical since you are not watering very often; I would bump up the watering to 3-5 times a day depending on how long you are misting for. Also get rid of the watering bowl. Some chameleons have learned to drink from water bowls, but it is very rare and therefore should not be used unless you are certain your chameleon recognizes it as a drinking source. Help that helps

 

[jojackson]

They became eggbound or had multiple large clutches?

 

[IceFyre]

Prevention

Thanks for the replies everyone, can i prevent them from getting egg bound

 

[prettykttkat]

I noticed also you give vitamins twice a week. I think that may be too much for an adult. I can tell you what has worked for me, dust insects every week with calcium and once a month with vitamins.

When your females were trying to lay eggs did you have an egg laying bin for them filled with dirt?

The first time my current female got gravid I put in a egg laying bin filled with dirt. She dug to the bottom and kept digging and would not lay her eggs. She did not drink or eat. After 4 days I became worried so I bought a huge trashcan and filled that with dirt and put her in it. For the next 3 days she dug 3 tunnels and finally laid her eggs at the bottom of one of them. Even though she was small she needed that huge trashcan to feel safe enough to lay her eggs. The 3 days she was in the trashcan I took her out every night and hand fed her water and hand fed her insects. She was getting more tired everyday(sunken eyes too) and I did not want her to die so I made her drink and eat to replenish some of the energy she was losing by digging all day. After she was done laying eggs I imeadeately fed and watered her by hand, gave her a little liquid calcium and put her back in her cage. The next week I hand watered her and when I fed her I made sure she was eating. If she did not eat enough I would make her. After that she was fine and back to normal. She has laid 2 more clutches after that one and now when I put her in the trashcan she lays eggs in 1-3 days. She does not have problems bouncing back to health either. I still make her eat and drink when she is digging in the trashcan but that is the only time. Acts pretty normal, eats and drinks normal after she is done.

Maybe your females had similar issues with laying eggs and maybe if you get them something very large like a huge trashcan they would lay their eggs better, and not be egg bound. You can also do what I did and hand water and feed your females while they are digging to lay eggs. This way they dont get too weak and die. If they dont bounce back afterwards then hand feed and water them until they do. I think my little female might have died if I didn't do what I did. Hope this helps you.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."can i prevent them from getting egg bound"...aside from physical reasons (eggs deformed, eggs fused, eggs too large to lay, reproductive tract deformities/issues) husbandry issues and failure to provide an appropriate place for them to dig can lead to eggbinding. There can also be issues with follicular stasis (much harder to diagnose, IMHO) that can lead to death.

Constantly overfeeding, incorrect supplementation, inappropriate temperatures, lack of UVB exposure, poor gutloading/feeding of insects, etc. can all play a part in eggbinding.

Since you lost your male too, I would look at your husbandry and perhaps at the possibility that the chameleons weren't from a good background as well.

Regarding your husbandry....
The number of eggs they laid was fairly high...so it might be that you were overfeeding them.

You said the cages were made of pine...is it sealed?

What type is the 5.0 light (spiral, compact, long linear)?
You said that the Schedule is 8-5...the lights should be on for 12 to 14 hours a day. I use regular incandescent household bulbs in a hood for basking lights. I'm not sure they would recognize an infra red light as a heat source.

You said..."Artifical string plants...what are string plants?
I use only real plants for adult veileds so there is no chance of them ingesting the leaves of an artificial one.

You said you feed them "mealworms, superworms ,crickets , daily veggies gut loading worms in breeding containers with wheat bran, milk powder, oats, gem squashes"...I don't use mealworms for any of my chameleons. I worry about them causing impactions. Your gutloading could be improved by adding an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc.) and veggies (carrots, sweet potatoes, sweet red pepper, celery leaves, zucchini, butternut squash, etc.).

You said..."T-Rex Chameleon Vitamins twice a week and iguana cal once a week"...look at them to see what in the way of calcium, phosphorous, D3 and preformed vitamin A are in these. These things play important roles in bone health and in other systems in the chameleon and need to be in balance.

After the first batch of eggs was laid for each female, did they make a quick recovery?

You said..."first the second female got gravid again and died over a period of 2 months she just didnt want to eat or anything, the first female did better but she also got gravid again and battled to lay her second clutch over three days, all eggs went bad. Her third clutch she laid over a week and got worst this was now over a period of 5 months then she also died"...and..."Last week my male misteriously laid down and died over night"....could have been from nutrient issues or it could have been from something else...I'm not a vet and can't tell you for sure.

Did you provide a place for the females to dig in the cages at all times once they were sexually mature?