Help Please!

[CTomlinson]

Ok guys, I could really use some help here. I have a three month old male veiled cham. Recently I started to catch him sleeping in the day time, which from research I had done prior to buying the little guy, was a bad sign. I contacted a personal friend who is very experienced with chams as well as the local reptile shop and described everything to them as far as cage set up, conditions, his appearance ect. Both sources stated that they believed he was just stressed and recommended that I move him to a small reptibreeze tank and put him in a very quiet place in the house. After doing that I have monitored him the last two days and nothing seems to be getting better. I know that chams hate being handled however he started to go on a hunger strike shortly before I noticed him sleeping at day so i had to increase his handeling to get him to eat. On a side note, he is still on a hunger strike too . He doesn't appear dehydrated as his eyes are still nice and big, and his skin is a bright green color and not wrinkled (although the very base of his tail seems to be wrinkled a little when I got home today). He also seems to be getting weaker than he used to be. I know its not MBD as his legs look totally normal and he is standing on them fine. I'm just really scared that i'm going to lose my precious little guy so young and would hate that to happen. I would post pics, however my only camera recenlty broke so I need to get it fixed before I can do that.

His cage is a small reptibreeze cage under a reptisun 5.0 bulb. The temp is nomally about 70-75, with a 40 watt basking bulb bringing the temp to 90. he has plenty of places to climb and hide as well.

Really I just want to know why he is sleeping during the day sometimes, why he is refusing to eat, and he seems to be getting weaker. Anyone ever have this experience with a young one?

Any help at all is greatly appreciated and thank you.

 

[blackened]

Sorry to hear you are having troubles.

One thing I notice straight away is that his temperature (I'm taking 90F to be his basking temp) is too high. The recommended basking temperature for a juvenile (1-3 months) veiled is 74-76 F. This should be gradually increased to 82-85 F as he reaches 1 year old.

If you would take time to fill out the standard how to ask for help form we'll take a look and try to help more.

# How to ask for help #

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[CTomlinson]

Sorry, didn't mean to break the procedure, just really concerned.

My Cham: 3 month old veiled Cham (male)

Been in my care: I have had him about 1 month

Feeding: Feeding him gut loaded crickets (he usually eats about 5-7 a day) once a day (midday)

Supplements: calcium every feeding with no d3 and a multivitamin 2 times a month

Watering: mist him two times daily for two min with warm water. Also have a dripper running all the time

Fecal description: honestly haven't seen very many (very small) but white and brown and pretty solid. Not tested for parasites.

History: obtained from a breeder in California so obviously he was shipped over to me in Colorado (stressful). Hates water for some reason.

Cage: Small reptibreeze cage that is all mesh and 3 feet tall

Lighting: 1 reptisun 5.0 light that is on from 9 am to 9 pm and a 40 watt heating bulb on at the same times.

Temperature: about 70-75 normally with a basking that ranges from 85-90. Measured using the stick on thermometers from the local reptile place (I know it's not the most accurate).

Humidity: old cage was constantly at about 60 percent but in the new mesh cage it is about 30-40 normally and 60-70 right after mistings. Same type of measuring gauges as the thermometer.

Plants: yes and I have some moss as well as a small ficus plant he loves to climb on.

Location: I am in Colorado. He is in my room where it is usually really quiet throughout the day and the top of the cage is about six feet from the floor.

Current problem: like I mentioned, I've caught him sleeping at day, he is barely eating and seems to be a little weaker. I'm really worried.

 

[blackened]

No worries about breaking procedure. The form just allows us to see most essential information to make an informed suggestion

Since he's quite young, I've read that you should be feeding closer to 20-25 small-med crickets every day. This is the stage of his life that he will grow most, so needs lots of food to help him. A wide variety of feeders is desirable also.

A few follow up questions:
What are the crickets gutloaded with?
Is D3 in the multivitamin?
Are you using the moss as a substrate?

Substrates are not popular on this forum as they can lead to impaction and (worst case scenario) death.

Other than the basking temp being a bit too high I can't see much else you could improve upon (pending answers to my questions in this post).

 

[CTomlinson]

Moss is on the bottom of the cage, but in a very small quantity. Also I have been told the same thing about the crickets, but he just will not eat, and I can't figure out why. I've never had this picky of an eater. The multivitamin does contain d3 and I'm gut loading with lettuce, carrots, apples, citrus, etc.

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi! I strongly suspect that the temperature is a big part of the problem. As blackened says, you need to knock that down.

Do that and hydrate excessively for a few days (double your misting schedule) and see if that doesn't straighten him out.

 

[CTomlinson]

Ok I will do that. Ever since I got him he won't eat a lot like I said. Any suggestions for that problem? Thanks to both of you, you have eased a little bit of my worry and help a lot.

 

[Elizadolots]

Take the temps down then see if he doesn't start eating again....they're complex animals, you cannot separate temperature from eating habits.

And, like I said, double up on mistings for a few days. Hydration makes everything work better!

 

[CTomlinson]

Ok I will totally do that. Sorry to keep asking questions, but when you mist your chams, do u mist them directly. I know our little guy hates to be misted and will move away from it. Also after closer look today, he is slightly dehydrated as his eyes have just barely begun to sink in so I was wondering if misting him directly would force his body to at least absorb some moisture that he may not be getting. Thanks a ton.

 

[blackened]

Our veiled female drinks most when we spray (using a hand mister) in through the mesh top of the enclosure. Some smaller drips fall through, then larger drops form and fall as well. Water is lukewarm temperature. I aim these drops at the tip of her nose. Try to stay away from the nostrils.

Another good method of hydration is to use feeders like silkworms or hornworms. They both contain a lot of moisture.

We do give her a more direct shower (through the mesh) as well, not pulling the 'trigger' quickly (don't want to blast them ). Again using lukewarm water.

Upon a second read of your details. I see your humidity is a bit low (may attribute to dehydration). Try to keep humidity levels between 55-65% if possible. It may be beneficial to cover one or two sides of your enclosure with either a shower curtain or plastic sheet (or something to that effect) to help keep humidity up.

 

[Action Jackson]

I would also adjust your lights to mimic your dawn and dusk times. If your lights go off 2 hours after he wants to go to sleep that isn't good IMO I think 7 to 7 is better.

 

[Kate]

Once you have got him to eat you could perhaps look at your gutloading. You said you use lettuce , there is not much goodness in this. Apples , oranges and carrots are good to keep feeders hydrated. Sandra has some good ideas for dry gutloading, you will find her blogs on here.

 

[CTomlinson]

Thank you...

Thank you to everyone who posted on this thread. I really do appreciate all the help that you guys have given me. After an emergency vet visit early today i am sad to say that our little guy has passed away. The vet said that he wasn't sick, but wasn't digesting his food properly and it was causing toxins to build up in his body. Combine that with stress and it just was too much for the little guy. I still have our female vercousus cham which is making things easier to deal with a little. Again thanks to all of you, I really do appreciate all the advice you offered to me.

 

[blackened]

I am so, so sorry for your loss. I really wanted him to pull through.

 

[Kate]

So sorry your little one is gone.