Highlighter yellow panther mouth and still very little growth

Mostly at night. It runs just a few short spurts during the day to spritz the leaves just in case we aren't home, but it mostly runs at night.
Is it a mister or fogger? If fogger, it shouldn’t be run at all during the day or when temps are above 70. The high humidity plus heat can increase risks for RI.
What is your general location? Perhaps we can help you find a better vet.
 
Oh that looks really good with all the plants for him to hide in. I’m beginning to wonder if he is just super stressed from everyone checking on him all the time and all the other things he’s been through. Maybe just let him be for awhile, put him in the big cage and leave him be. Let him be a Chameleon.
 
Is it a mister or fogger? If fogger, it shouldn’t be run at all during the day or when temps are above 70. The high humidity plus heat can increase risks for RI.
What is your general location? Perhaps we can help you find a better vet.
It's a fogger. I have a mister also, but it spits everywhere and makes puddles. I am not a fan. I have changed the settings already. I am in the Appleton Area in Wisconsin. I have taken my last cham to All Creatures Animal Hospital and this one I have been taking to Gentle Vet in Green Bay. I have called every vet I can find within a reasonable driving distance. Please tell me I missed one! They have all been wonderful people and are trying super hard to do the right thing, but I am learning very quickly that I need to know more going into an appointment than I have been. Lesson learned.
 
What did he vet say about the eyes?

What are the cage temperatures at night?

Did the vet do blood tests?
First the vet flushed his eyes then suggested that maybe it would fix itself with the next shed. It didn't. Cage temp at night is about 70ish. I would have to put ice packs on it to lower it further. He is too small for bloodwork at this time. Nobody is willing to try it due to his size.
 
Oh that looks really good with all the plants for him to hide in. I’m beginning to wonder if he is just super stressed from everyone checking on him all the time and all the other things he’s been through. Maybe just let him be for awhile, put him in the big cage and leave him be. Let him be a Chameleon.
I thought that too for a while and we left him for two weeks aside from one or two weight checks and it didn't change anything with the eyes or help him grow at an accelerated rate. I hope the big cage helps. I let him go in there for an hour or two this afternoon for the first time and when we put him back in the small one he was pawing at the side nearest the big cage trying to get out. He did it twice, right away. He clearly wanted to go back, so guess where he is sleeping! Gotta move some food and water in the morning, but the little stinker sure showed me.
 
You said..."First the vet flushed his eyes then suggested that maybe it would fix itself with the next shed It didn't...."I'm not surprised. I'm thinking since you used an antibiotic, maybe it's not an infection...but it needs to be figured out.

You said..."Cage temp at night is about 70ish. I would have to put ice packs on it to lower it further"... @Beman ...is this too warm to be fogging at night?

You said..."He is too small for bloodwork at this time. Nobody is willing to try it due to his size"... Can't tell the size from your photos. Blood work might have told you if it is a liver issue.
 
am in the Appleton Area in Wisconsin. I have taken my last cham to All Creatures Animal Hospital and this one I have been taking to Gentle Vet in Green Bay. I have called every vet I can find within a reasonable driving distance. Please tell me I missed one!
@jannb do you know of any good vets in this area?
 
Yes and no. This clinic is 2 hours away for me, so a little far, but not crazy in a pinch. That said, they have not been very helpful. My cham did a small amount of mouth breathing in the last few days and then my vet in Green Bay asked them to look over his case and they declared him a medical emergency. $450 to walk in the doors before they even do anything with him. They also refused to tell me over the phone whether they could do bloodwork on a 10g chameleon, but they happily told my vet they could not. Why I would take him there is a mystery to me given his situation. I think I am going to have to figure this out on my own.
 
Hello again. Not sure whether I should post this as a new question or not but all of the previous info is here. I am wondering how long I should wait to expect changes in my little guy now that he is in a bigger enclosure. He is finding his food well now and poops look good. He is happy and his colour has REALLY gotten more intense over the past few days. What I am wondering about is his eye issue. I think from the messages and a suggestion from our breeder, that his UVB was too close in his smaller cage. Now that his light is further away, I am wondering what the likelihood is that this will fix the blinking and rolling and how fast we will see an improvement. Thanks
 
Thanks. Here's what I can tell you right now:

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Nosy Be Panther, 6 month old male. We have had him since the end of July. He was 3 months at the time. He was 4 g when we got him. He was 10.7 today. Slow growing for sure
  • Handling - He actually really likes being handled, but we limit the amount of time out because he hasn't been well. He does hide a bit on the sides of branches when I reach in to feed etc...but if I put my thumb out for him and offer it, he usually comes right away, but only with thumbs...funny dude! I would say he comes out maybe 4 times a week for quality time, but 2 of those times he goes on his ficus tree, which is too big for his enclosure. I do bring him out almost daily for weight checks these days though, but those are very short visits just for maintenance because we are concerned. I built him a little log table to crawl onto so he doesn't even know he is on a scale to minimize stress. It's cute and he sometimes isn't "done" when it's time to go home.
  • Feeding - He eats dubias, small silkworms and crickets. I offer him 4 silks a day and as many dubias and crickets as he will eat. I just keep the cricket window hopping and the dubia cup full. We are really trying to have him put on some weight. He gets fed every morning and I swap out the feeders that were left from the day before so all of his insects are freshly gutloaded. I gutload with rotating fresh food sprinkled with repashy gutload on the crickets, and of course the silkworms eat their weird mush! I have started growing my own greens just to feed his feeders so I always have good variety.
  • Supplements - I use repashy and dust all of his food with it. No d every day but Sunday. He gets the multivit on Sunday.
  • Watering - He has a leaf dripper he likes to drink from and a fogger on a timer to get his leaves wet and bring the humidity up in his cage. He has also started learning to drink from a syringe and I soak him twice a week, as per our vet's request.
  • Fecal Description - tested twice since we have had him. No issues. Poops are great looking. Nice and big, moist, colour is on point.
  • History - It was cold the day he was delivered. The only thing I can't get to a perfect level is his nighttime sleeping temp. It is house temp, which is a little high for his ideal species temp, but otherwise, we have set up everything so carefully for him. His first RI was very soon after he got here, and that was 3 weeks of shots, then after 5 days of break, he started showing signs again, so we did another 3 weeks. That ended beginning of Sept. He seemed better, although small, until very recently when he started sleeping in a more hidden spot and staying there much later in the morning and going to bed much earlier too. Then the mouth breathing started as well. That is when I took him in and the doc is concerned about his liver. He also rubs his eyes on branches A LOT, which he has been doing the whole time we have had him. He closes his eyes for long periods of time and rolls them around in the sockets. I have a feeling that all of this is related, but he is too small at 10g for bloodwork, so we are all guessing.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Right now, he is in a screen cage that is 16x16x20. We have a 2ftx2ftx4ft for him, if he would just grow!!!!
  • Lighting - T5H0 5.0 German made uvb. basking lamp and uvb are on a single timer, on at 7 and off at 7.
  • Temperature - basking is about 86/87. I have a probe up there always and adjust as needed. Room temp is 74, so rest of cage is about that. I have his fogger run a bit more through the night to try and keep the cage cooler then. It will change a bit when the furnace kicks in. This is the "summer" heat setting for our house. He will prefer sleeping in the winter as it will be a bit cooler for him.
  • Humidity - have a meter. Fogger and dripper helps with this. We also have a fancy system on our furnace for our piano so the house stays constant, making it easier for us to keep it constant in his cage, about 50-55%
  • Plants - Small cage, no live plants in there, but we let him out to climb on the live plants and there is lots of room for them in the big cage, he just needs to grow. Ficus, pothos, and the other one that's safe. Crap...I am an outdoor plant girl...lines on the leaves. Remind me and I will know if you're right. It's a totally common houseplant. Gah!
  • Placement - Cage is on a "side table" height table. It is in a quiet corner of our kitchen away from vents, but just in case, we have a clear shower curtain on one side to ensure there is no draft from the vent across the way. Wall on the back, big cage on the other side, and lots of places for him to hide and feel safe.
  • Location - We live in Wisconsin.

Current Problem - Is his yellow mouth normal? What could be causing recurring RI's? WHY IS HE SO SMALL??????

Thanks!
One thing I noticed, didn't read the whole post because I'm no expert myself, however I noticed you mention you're dusting your insects with repashi - I don't know if this was a typo on your part but I wanted to make sure you knew something about repashi bug burger. Repashi bug burger is supposed to be mixed with 1 part bug burger and 3 parts water, you need to put 3 parts water in a pan and bring to a boil with the repashi bug burger dust, stir thoroughly until you can't see any water left. Once it's all stirred quickly pour it into a container - it sets like gelatin for the bugs to eat, put the container in the fridge for a few minutes and it'll set into a jello like substance, place whatever container/mould you want into the container. You have a couple options as far as serving goes. Personally I prefer serving dishes for my bugs, however alternatively (I'm considering moving to using moulds instead of leaving in a dish, because I have some dubia roach larvae that won't be able to climb in or out of the food dish) you can release the bug burger you just cooked up (once it's done setting) from whatever container you pour the mixture into.

I would imagine a couple things are happening here. 1. Bug burger should be used in addition to your supplement routine (if you aren't using supplements already, but by the looks of it you are still dusting). 2. Bug burger is a dust form yes, but it's not intended to dust your insects with, it's for them to eat and gutload.

I could be wrong, but if you haven't been gitloading your insects this COULD potentially deprive a chameleon of essential nutrients, I'd imagine at that point leaving them a bit malnourished. Silk worms are really high in fats which if your panther is really skinny right now is probably a good idea, but if your panther does have some weight then maybe consider removing silk worms from the diet for now and only offer as treats. Your main feeder should be dubia roaches because they are high in a lot of the things chameleons need, and they are easy to colonize and care for, I pretty much strictly feed dubia roaches at this point. I do have mealworms around but ultimately my chameleons seem to really love them. They also gutload extremely well and hold a ton of food for your chams.

I can't say that nutrients are the issue, they may not be, but the one thing I noticed from your post that maybe you're doing incorrectly, is dusting the insects with the bug burger as opposed to feeding them.

Some pet stores and shops do gutload their feeders, but usually not with much. My dubias when I get them from the store are pretty small and empty. Once I give them some bug burger they bulk up really, really quickly. This will make your meals for your chameleon more hearty and nutritious. I hope this little tidbit helps, sorry there isn't much more I can do.
 
Hello again. Not sure whether I should post this as a new question or not but all of the previous info is here. I am wondering how long I should wait to expect changes in my little guy now that he is in a bigger enclosure. He is finding his food well now and poops look good. He is happy and his colour has REALLY gotten more intense over the past few days. What I am wondering about is his eye issue. I think from the messages and a suggestion from our breeder, that his UVB was too close in his smaller cage. Now that his light is further away, I am wondering what the likelihood is that this will fix the blinking and rolling and how fast we will see an improvement. Thanks

It sounds like he’s trying to wash out his eyes with the blinking and rolling of the eyes. I’d give him, a good long mist by hand so plenty of water can get in that eye/eyes for him to wash them out.
 
One thing I noticed, didn't read the whole post because I'm no expert myself, however I noticed you mention you're dusting your insects with repashi - I don't know if this was a typo on your part but I wanted to make sure you knew something about repashi bug burger. Repashi bug burger is supposed to be mixed with 1 part bug burger and 3 parts water, you need to put 3 parts water in a pan and bring to a boil with the repashi bug burger dust, stir thoroughly until you can't see any water left. Once it's all stirred quickly pour it into a container - it sets like gelatin for the bugs to eat, put the container in the fridge for a few minutes and it'll set into a jello like substance, place whatever container/mould you want into the container. You have a couple options as far as serving goes. Personally I prefer serving dishes for my bugs, however alternatively (I'm considering moving to using moulds instead of leaving in a dish, because I have some dubia roach larvae that won't be able to climb in or out of the food dish) you can release the bug burger you just cooked up (once it's done setting) from whatever container you pour the mixture into.

I would imagine a couple things are happening here. 1. Bug burger should be used in addition to your supplement routine (if you aren't using supplements already, but by the looks of it you are still dusting). 2. Bug burger is a dust form yes, but it's not intended to dust your insects with, it's for them to eat and gutload.

I could be wrong, but if you haven't been gitloading your insects this COULD potentially deprive a chameleon of essential nutrients, I'd imagine at that point leaving them a bit malnourished. Silk worms are really high in fats which if your panther is really skinny right now is probably a good idea, but if your panther does have some weight then maybe consider removing silk worms from the diet for now and only offer as treats. Your main feeder should be dubia roaches because they are high in a lot of the things chameleons need, and they are easy to colonize and care for, I pretty much strictly feed dubia roaches at this point. I do have mealworms around but ultimately my chameleons seem to really love them. They also gutload extremely well and hold a ton of food for your chams.

I can't say that nutrients are the issue, they may not be, but the one thing I noticed from your post that maybe you're doing incorrectly, is dusting the insects with the bug burger as opposed to feeding them.

Some pet stores and shops do gutload their feeders, but usually not with much. My dubias when I get them from the store are pretty small and empty. Once I give them some bug burger they bulk up really, really quickly. This will make your meals for your chameleon more hearty and nutritious. I hope this little tidbit helps, sorry there isn't much more I can do.
Hi. I am aware of how bug burger works and I use it accordingly. I dust my bugs with Repashi NO D and use LoD once every 2 weeks. I grow greens for them and feed them bug burger as well. They are healthy and well gutloaded, I assure you, but thank you for taking the time to make sure. I know people are at all stages here and perhaps this will help someone else too! I order all of my bugs from bug breeders also, rather than getting them from local stores. I find the quality of the bugs here are at our local stores is awful!

As for silks vs dubias, this is interesting. The breeder he came from uses a lot of silks when they are small and he was very happy to have them. It is what he always goes to first. Are you suggesting I should try to stop feeding those to him until he eats more dubias? He rarely goes to his dubia bowl actually. Maybe once or twice a week. He is more fond of silks and crickets. I am so worried about his wee size, I have not been challenging his eating of the silks, just trying to keep enough in the house at a reasonable size for him, which is an awesome adventure in itself! Thoughts?

Thanks again. Always happy to keep learning.
 
It sounds like he’s trying to wash out his eyes with the blinking and rolling of the eyes. I’d give him, a good long mist by hand so plenty of water can get in that eye/eyes for him to wash them out.
I have had the vet wash his eye out twice and have been doing drops for over a month with him. I am happy to mist him, but I was feeling pretty confident the light change was going to help more at this point. He has had one shed since this eye issue began also. Am I barking up the wrong tree? He has only been in his new bigger cage, with better light distance and a better bulb for one week. I just don't know how fast this might correct if that truly was the problem. Our vet is not sure on this one either.
 
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