HORRIBLE Husbandry of veiled at PETCO

[rajon1080]

So I started collecting supplies for my new panther cham about 2 months ago at a petco near me. coincidently, chameleons had just become legal in MA and my local petco had just gotten it's first chameleon for sale.

His husbandry is awful. They're keeping him in a glass enclosure, with some sort of mulch looking substrate on the floor, and 1 lousy artificial vine for him to climb on. In addition to that, an employee told me they are giving him calcium WITH d3 every day (if he's even eating much). I've told them repeatedly when visiting the store that this setup will likely kill him if someone who knows how to care for him doesn't buy him soon.

Every time I return his habitat is exactly the same and his condition looks to be worse. He looks dehydrated, underweight, and looks like he's barely holding his eyes open. When I first saw him there he was energetic and seemingly healthy.

Although I'm am still a begginer keeper, It's sad and so frustrating to watch his health decline when I know at least at a basic level the huge changes that need to be made with his husbandry.

I'm sure this is something that is all too common considering the particular/ demanding care these animals need. I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this and been able to do anything to help..

 

[nj011908]

Maybe take it to the press, likely nothing else to report in your state (not a stab) just a small state. That will change it, cause many preppie have gone to the corporate route only to get politely told to F$@# off

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Sadly, this post is not unique. I see posts almost identical to this one on a weekly basis. People have tried adopting the animal... they just get a new one. They have tried educating the employees... they don't listen. They have tried to talk to the manager... their hands are tied by corporate. They have tried contacting corporate and nothing ever happens.

The best way to make a stand is to not buy anything from the large pet corporations. There are many site sponsors that sell the same equipment and will ship. If you do not agree with their policies, spend your money elsewhere. That is the only way to make them listen. I know it is very hard when you see that little veiled baking in his glass aquarium but if you buy him, they will just replace him with a new victim. They make very little money on the animal itself, it is the dry goods and useless equipment they insist you need, that makes a profit. So to them the animal is just a dollar sign. Don't go in, it will just make you sad, and don't spend. That's all I can say about that...

 

[broderp]

I dislike PETA with a passion, (thats a different discussion) but perhaps they should be made aware of pet store pet conditions?

The crap they will raise in the name of animal cruielty may be what some pet stores need to either shape up or stop selling these animals.

Win-win for the animals and for true caring breeders and owners.

 

[massoudjeff]

My best friend is a manager at petco in dartmouth and his hands are tied with what he can do with the tank they're in. It's awful but he sells them almost always the day they come in and so they dont stay too long in the bad environment. I bought my veiled from him because my original baby died because of stress (thank you cat) but my new one is thriving you just have to be lucky with the big chain stores i still like my regular reptile store but they have odd hours so the replacement to my daughters original Pascal as we call him had to be bought there for double what i spent at my reptile store originally but my new one is thriving eating like a champ and has shed twice in the three weeks ive had him so sometimes you have to be lucky and buy them the day they come in so they dont have to deal with the bad environment most of them have the chams in

 

[SaintJimmy]

I wish to get a job at Petco/Petsmart as soon as I turn 16/am eligible for a job (I've already been an intern for a law office, so I hope that helps my odds at getting a job) simply because I want to work my way up the ladder there and try and make a change.

All that "they need a water dish/tons of crickets in their cage constantly because if a customer sees an animal without water/food they will get angry" crap is BS, in my opinion.

Instead of the customer getting mad at the animals' lack of water, the employee could just explain why it is bad to have a water dish, and why they use alternative methods of watering instead of having stale water in there. Or instead of the customer getting angry at the animal abuse/lack of animal food in the cage, the employee could be educated to explain calmly that the bugs that it eats are aggressive/hungry and would bite the chameleon (delicate animal) if given the chance, so that is why they have designated feeding times, etc.

There is so much wrong with that place.

Once we received such bad treatment there - the lady over the phone told us that literally EVERYTHING (animals, decorations, and cages alike) was 50% off. We got to the same exact store and gather everything up for the new beardie we were getting (we WERE going to buy from a breeder, but I guess she was too inexperienced to realize her eggs were infertile the whole time, so the baby she promised us was not there). We get to the checkout stand after we did the math, after the lady verified that the sale was indeed going on, and THERE WERE STILL ADS UP for the sale all around the store... And the price comes to at least double of what we figured it would be. So we had her do the math for the 50% off and the price was exactly what it was when we calculated it. She still refused to give us the deal, despite banners being all over that there indeed was a full 50% off sale of the entire reptile section (animals, decorations, and cages...). So we said hell, it's my brother's birthday (the beardie was for him) we can pay the extra money for his pet. So we paid for his stuff. Then an employee on their cellphone comes walking by and knocks my brother's triple-bagged clay/ceramic/whatever hidey hole things out of his hands and it breaks on the floor, and she KEEPS WALKING! Didn't apologize. And they check to see if they have more of the same one, and they didn't go to the back, they just looked at the shelf and said, "Nope, pick a new one." My brother at this point is very uncomfortable and defeated looking, this is his birthday and he wanted everyone to be cheerful and celebrate the new pet, but no. THEN we pick another thing and the lady at the checkout is very rude to us. Not to mention as I walked by the chameleon's cage, I noticed the baby veiled chameleon had crust in its eye and was upright and had little bubbles by its mouth. I got the nearest employee and told him that the chameleon was very sick and that I have experience with these, I explained to him that the way the chameleon was sitting was not normal, the crust and the closed eyes were a sign of illness, and the bubbles/foaming by the mouth was a sign of upper respiratory infection. The employee proceeds to pull out the cage, stick his hand on the chameleon's stick, shake it around, then slid the cage back where it was and said, "Oh it's fine now! It's awake." That place is horrible. What the ffff.

Also, afterward, we had 3+ witnesses to this (all a part of my family) and my dad's girlfriend (who worked for an attorney) called the CEO/corporate whatever office of Petco and they gave literally 0 shits about what she said until she said she was calling upon the behalf of Greg ___ Attorney office. They said the CEO himself would review the information we gave them and get back to us via email or phone within three days.

He never did.

And the chameleon is dead now probably, but our beardie is doing great.

bonus picture--the condition of Monty the day he was taken home from pet co through to one week of ownership

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8cpb8ftrb129zls/YY_08UzzlV

Here is a picture of him with a stunted casque, this was still when he was quite young. OR he might be older than I think and just had been stunted by his lack of calcium.

And he has been improving

and getting better and better every day

So here is one rescue that went well.

 

[fluxlizard]

My best friend is a manager at petco in dartmouth and his hands are tied with what he can do with the tank they're in.

I recently came across a bad petco setup as well- they had nothing to climb on but the air tube going to the bubbler bowl.

Surely a petco can pull a few artificial vines and sticks from inventory to use (they have twiggy branches over in the bird supplies) and at least throw down a more appropriate substrate (reptile carpet or something). And they probably sell little drips or something they could hook up and catch in a catch bowl rather than a bubbler...

This "tying of the hands" is why systems of all kinds are best controlled from the bottom up rather than the top down if they want to have maximum effectiveness and intelligence.

 

[Carlton]

I dislike PETA with a passion, (thats a different discussion) but perhaps they should be made aware of pet store pet conditions?

The crap they will raise in the name of animal cruielty may be what some pet stores need to either shape up or stop selling these animals.

Win-win for the animals and for true caring breeders and owners.

Getting PETA involved can backfire. We keep "exotics". PETA members may be very much against the keeping of any animals, but even more so for those non-traditional pets. I'm not sure we want to bring their attention to the plight of those chams! They will have even more ammunition to use against captive breeding of exotics, importation, etc.

In all the years I've thought about this the only solution I keep coming back to is to boycott the big corporate stores entirely. I don't buy ANYTHING from them...for any type of pet at all. No food, toys, supplies, crates, treats, nothing. I try to cultivate and educate a local mom-pop pet shop that seems to care about their animals instead.

 

[SaintJimmy]

Getting PETA involved can backfire. We keep "exotics". PETA members may be very much against the keeping of any animals, but even more so for those non-traditional pets. I'm not sure we want to bring their attention to the plight of those chams! They will have even more ammunition to use against captive breeding of exotics, importation, etc.

In all the years I've thought about this the only solution I keep coming back to is to boycott the big corporate stores entirely. I don't buy ANYTHING from them...for any type of pet at all. No food, toys, supplies, crates, treats, nothing. I try to cultivate and educate a local mom-pop pet shop that seems to care about their animals instead.

Sadly all the "mom and pop" stores around here are actually worse than pet co.

I rely on them for crickets though, because if I run out, they are the only place that sells them besides petco or petsmart.

Every time I walk in I see a beautiful african grey parrot in a cage that is tiny. A cage that is likely a crate for several small birds rather than a big bird. The thing has ONE stick in it and barely enough room for the poor bird to live.

Also there is a nicely sized bearded dragon tank with a beardie in it in the back, they have it on display. It's never clean, poop everywhere, TONS of crickets laying in the sand everywhere, did I mention sand? Also there was a huge water bowl that was festering. It looked stale and disgusting. The poor beardie was in relatively good shape. A nicely colored adult female, but the damn condition of the cage was horrible.

The only animals they take good care of are their cats! Even their mice/rats live in poor conditions (for rats and mice..).

It's saddening.

I asked the owner whether she has any exp with chameleons. She says yeah, we had one named joe and he was a veiled chameleon. Had him since he was a baby and never had to take him to the vet. He barely moved and was boring and sat on the dirt all day and had him for 2 years before he finally passed.

 

[broderp]

bonus picture--the condition of Monty the day he was taken home from pet co through to one week of ownership

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8cpb8ftrb129zls/YY_08UzzlV

Here is a picture of him with a stunted casque, this was still when he was quite young. OR he might be older than I think and just had been stunted by his lack of calcium.

And he has been improving

and getting better and better every day

So here is one rescue that went well.

That chams legs look funny, almost to "bendy" or round at the elbows. Poor little guy.

 

[Love]

I would suggest asking for the reptile employee and letting them know that the chameleon(s) need more stuff to climb on along with a higher level of humidity (and temps if they're low). That seemed to work at Petco for me. They also ended up moving the little guys into one of the larger display cases (it's more horizontal than vertical...but hey..it's a step up from the tiny cases).
And at another Petco, they actually went and ordered misters for the chameleon case when I had inquired about the low humidity levels. I also was a mentor in high school for an employee working at this location, and after informing him that the levels were low, he went and manually misted the cage whenever he was working to keep the humidity up.

It seemed like being uber nice to the employees worked out well for me...and knowing an employee at one of the locations. I also visit the first location quite frequently to buy stuff for my pup, so I check up on the reptiles and always voice my concerns to the reptile employee.

 

[ChocolateBacon]

In terms of reporting them, I heard that they can't get into any legal trouble as long as they're providing food, water, and housing/shelter. I think here's no law that says that you have to be knowledgeable. Is there a law that forbids the sale of sick animals by businesses? That might be the route to go.

There are a ton of other animals that they don't care for properly, but maybe we're not as knowledgeable about non-chameleon care, or doesn't catch our attention as much. . The fish there are always sick and housed improperly.

Public exposure is great, but the general population is just as clueless about chameleons, so just stating that Petco is not housing them correctly isn't going to make a very loud statement to the general public. It's going to come down to some person vs a pet store, both adamant that they're right. The best thing to do is to educate people about avoiding buying from stores that don't properly care for their animals. If they don't sell for profit, they won't keep stocking.

It's horrible that these ignorant people sell their animals to the ignorant public, who believes all of the wrongful information the pet store gives them.

 

[broderp]

In terms of reporting them, I heard that they can't get into any legal trouble as long as they're providing food, water, and housing/shelter. I think here's no law that says that you have to be knowledgeable. Is there a law that forbids the sale of sick animals by businesses? That might be the route to go.

There are a ton of other animals that they don't care for properly, but maybe we're not as knowledgeable about non-chameleon care, or doesn't catch our attention as much. . The fish there are always sick and housed improperly.

Public exposure is great, but the general population is just as clueless about chameleons, so just stating that Petco is not housing them correctly isn't going to make a very loud statement to the general public. It's going to come down to some person vs a pet store, both adamant that they're right. The best thing to do is to educate people about avoiding buying from stores that don't properly care for their animals. If they don't sell for profit, they won't keep stocking.

It's horrible that these ignorant people sell their animals to the ignorant public, who believes all of the wrongful information the pet store gives them.

This post reinded me of the story about a Petsmart or other chaim petstore that THREW AWAY a cham or reptile and someone busted them and got it out of the dumpter. I believe it was on Youtube.

 

[SaintJimmy]

That chams legs look funny, almost to "bendy" or round at the elbows. Poor little guy.

Yeah I know his legs look funny, he has MBD due to horrible petco conditions I got him in. Look at my dropbox link. I'm working hard to help him return to normal.

He is my chameleon if you didn't notice

But yeah poor guy.

 

[broderp]

Yeah I know his legs look funny, he has MBD due to horrible petco conditions I got him in. Look at my dropbox link. I'm working hard to help him return to normal.

He is my chameleon if you didn't notice

But yeah poor guy.

I had never seen MBD prior to your pictures. Coincidentally, I came across a thread about it after I saw the pics and finally made the connection. Hence my odd, ignorant comment about his legs looking funny.

Will he ever be normal or once the bones bend they never straighten out again? Or is the best outcome the hardenng of the bones as they are and regaining some mobility and self sufficiency?

I meant no disrespect. Sorry if it came off that way. Hope he recovers under your good care.

 

[FlChamMom]

I knew he had MBD when you got him but I had never seen Young Monty pics- that is an amazing transformation. He is so lucky you found him!

bonus picture--the condition of Monty the day he was taken home from pet co through to one week of ownership

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/8cpb8ftrb129zls/YY_08UzzlV

Here is a picture of him with a stunted casque, this was still when he was quite young. OR he might be older than I think and just had been stunted by his lack of calcium.

And he has been improving

and getting better and better every day

So here is one rescue that went well.

 

[Pachytriton]

Hi, another owner from MA. Two weeks ago I walked in a Petco to get some crickets for my veiled and I immediately noticed they have replaced the poor knight anoles with some thing odd. And turns out that they are two small male veiled about 5 inches long. That's when I knew the ban in MA has been lifted.
After that day, I checked three other Petco stores in MA, all having veiled. One even has a pair of Jackson, a young male and a young female (priced at 139.99!). In general, the housing setup is terrible. No ventilation, no basking spot, no UV light, and no dripping water. I talked with one employee, who claimed he had a panther before. I asked what locale did he have and he said he didn't know. How odd would that be with a panther owner doesn't know the locale of his cham? I figure probably he has little experience with cham at all.
Too sad that the poor cham are picked up by the chain stores. I figure there must be breeders keep supplying the stores with new babies, because the store itself doesn't breed any animals.

So I started collecting supplies for my new panther cham about 2 months ago at a petco near me. coincidently, chameleons had just become legal in MA and my local petco had just gotten it's first chameleon for sale.

His husbandry is awful. They're keeping him in a glass enclosure, with some sort of mulch looking substrate on the floor, and 1 lousy artificial vine for him to climb on. In addition to that, an employee told me they are giving him calcium WITH d3 every day (if he's even eating much). I've told them repeatedly when visiting the store that this setup will likely kill him if someone who knows how to care for him doesn't buy him soon.

Every time I return his habitat is exactly the same and his condition looks to be worse. He looks dehydrated, underweight, and looks like he's barely holding his eyes open. When I first saw him there he was energetic and seemingly healthy.

Although I'm am still a begginer keeper, It's sad and so frustrating to watch his health decline when I know at least at a basic level the huge changes that need to be made with his husbandry.

I'm sure this is something that is all too common considering the particular/ demanding care these animals need. I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this and been able to do anything to help..

 

[PoshPenny]

If I have to go in petco or pet smart I just dont go look anymore. Just resist.

 

[ir0k]

funny thing, so today I was trying to locate some small Dubai roaches to introduce a little different variety but everyone I called today did not have anything. no dubias or silkworms ><

so like a noob I called a local petsmart where I asked the "reptile specialist" if they had any live feeders for chameleons. She suggested I use small live minoes (sp) cause that's what they feed their garden snakes.

I didn't even bother saying anything but had a quirky smile when I hung up the phone and just shook my head. That place is a joke.

last time I went to my local petsmart I saw 1 Jackson cham and 1 veild cham in a built display where the area these chameleons had was literally like 6" by 6" enclosures with standing water and substrate galore.

I've decided its best I just don't even go into a petsmart anymore. Not worth calling either after today. I have local petshops that carry the bare essentials and more specialized petshops for specialized stuff. Also, we have the internet we can just order things from.

Petsmart is a sad sad place........but everyone here already knows that

 

[Uvagohoos]

To stop the bashing of petco I will say the one near my house takes very solid care of their animals they keep them in glass cage till they reach 6 inches and then move them to screen, they provide a ton for the animals to climb on and have silkworms superworms and crickets for the animal they provide calcium without D3 and the cage size seems fine I feel worse for any animal at Petsmart they are awful I saw an 8 inch veiled chameleon in a 1x1x1 foot cage and it look awful its eyes were dropped and it was barely moving