Housing Multiple chameleons

[ALLIEGATOR]

Anyone house multiple chameleons in the same enclosures?
What are you experiences?
Does it matter the gender?
I've read that people are against it and some do it just fine.

 

[Beman]

Just say no... bad idea for most species regardless of gender.

 

[ALLIEGATOR]

Just say no... bad idea for most species regardless of gender.

I respect your reply, but is it an opinion or fact?
I'm not doing it, just asking questions to learn the do's and dont's

 

[Beman]

I respect your reply, but is it an opinion or fact?
I'm not doing it, just asking questions to learn the do's and dont's

It is a fact. Veileds and panthers do not do well housed together. In fact the stress alone will eventually cause a health decline. If one does not kill the other. They do not live in communal groups. They fight for territory. It is like you never put two male Betta fish together because they kill each other. I have heard that some species of Pygmy chameleons can be housed together.

 

[ALLIEGATOR]

It is a fact. Veileds and panthers do not do well housed together. In fact the stress alone will eventually cause a health decline. If one does not kill the other. They do not live in communal groups. They fight for territory. It is like you never put two male Betta fish together because they kill each other. I have heard that some species of Pygmy chameleons can be housed together.

Could you put multiple veiled together?

 

[Beman]

Could you put multiple veiled together?

No never see my last post.

 

[ChameleonRave]

I agree with Beman. Primarily the only species that can be housed together would be pygmy chameleons given they have appropriate accommodations and I believe Mellers chameleons are a communal species as well.

 

[JIFFYPOP]

If you had individual cages, could you put them next to each other, or should they not be able to see each other?

 

[GoodKarma19]

If you had individual cages, could you put them next to each other, or should they not be able to see each other?

Separate cages next to each other is fine, as long as you block line of sight with a sheet of plastic/etc.

 

[Carlton]

It is a fact. Veileds and panthers do not do well housed together. In fact the stress alone will eventually cause a health decline. If one does not kill the other. They do not live in communal groups. They fight for territory. It is like you never put two male Betta fish together because they kill each other. I have heard that some species of Pygmy chameleons can be housed together.

Species that have a reputation for being somewhat communal still need to be housed in a large enough space. You can't cram 4 pygmy chams in a tiny aquarium. You could put the same 4 in a very large densely planted terrarium that allows each animal to retreat from the others, get enough food, drink and rest in peace. Some people have kept Meller's chameleons in loose groups but once again the SPACE and how it is designed are critical. Even if they get along some of the time if females are gravid the males may keep pestering them to the point they end up stressed out, sick, dehydrated, malnourished, or even injured. Captive chams don't have nearly the same choice in where they spend their time, how often they must interact with another cham, how well they can retreat from them. Wild ones might live in adjacent trees or shrubs. Even if they are somewhat close together all the chams "know" they can space themselves even farther apart if they wish. Captives can't, and that makes all the difference.

Territorial species like veileds and panthers (honestly the most likely species the typical buyer is ever going to see) cannot be housed in the same limited space. If you had a room with lots of separated trees and visual cover, multiple basking spots, feeding stations, drinking stations you might get away with it. You would have to be watching their behavior very closely on a daily basis and change things up if any of the chams start to decline. I've housed 3 adult melleri in a bedroom free range. They all tolerated it. Most cham buyers are not giving up entire rooms for 2 lizards. For the sake of your chams...don't try. The typical 24x36x48 cham cage? Forget it entirely.

 

[ALLIEGATOR]

Species that have a reputation for being somewhat communal still need to be housed in a large enough space. You can't cram 4 pygmy chams in a tiny aquarium. You could put the same 4 in a very large densely planted terrarium that allows each animal to retreat from the others, get enough food, drink and rest in peace. Some people have kept Meller's chameleons in loose groups but once again the SPACE and how it is designed are critical. Even if they get along some of the time if females are gravid the males may keep pestering them to the point they end up stressed out, sick, dehydrated, malnourished, or even injured. Captive chams don't have nearly the same choice in where they spend their time, how often they must interact with another cham, how well they can retreat from them. Wild ones might live in adjacent trees or shrubs. Even if they are somewhat close together all the chams "know" they can space themselves even farther apart if they wish. Captives can't, and that makes all the difference.

Territorial species like veileds and panthers (honestly the most likely species the typical buyer is ever going to see) cannot be housed in the same limited space. If you had a room with lots of separated trees and visual cover, multiple basking spots, feeding stations, drinking stations you might get away with it. You would have to be watching their behavior very closely on a daily basis and change things up if any of the chams start to decline. I've housed 3 adult melleri in a bedroom free range. They all tolerated it. Most cham buyers are not giving up entire rooms for 2 lizards. For the sake of your chams...don't try. The typical 24x36x48 cham cage? Forget it entirely.

Thank you for the clarification carlton!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

@jamest0o0 ive heard that female parsons cans be somewhat social, even to the point of seeking each other out to sleep together. Ever heard that?

 

[jamest0o0]

@jamest0o0 ive heard that female parsons cans be somewhat social, even to the point of seeking each other out to sleep together. Ever heard that?

That's really interesting. Where did you here that? I don't have much knowledge on female Parson's other than the basics. I know of people who have housed males and females together successfully, though they had LARGE *enclosures*(more like rooms).

To sum up this thread... Like they say with mixing species, "if you have to ask, don't do it"

 

[Beman]

Species that have a reputation for being somewhat communal still need to be housed in a large enough space. You can't cram 4 pygmy chams in a tiny aquarium. You could put the same 4 in a very large densely planted terrarium that allows each animal to retreat from the others, get enough food, drink and rest in peace. Some people have kept Meller's chameleons in loose groups but once again the SPACE and how it is designed are critical. Even if they get along some of the time if females are gravid the males may keep pestering them to the point they end up stressed out, sick, dehydrated, malnourished, or even injured. Captive chams don't have nearly the same choice in where they spend their time, how often they must interact with another cham, how well they can retreat from them. Wild ones might live in adjacent trees or shrubs. Even if they are somewhat close together all the chams "know" they can space themselves even farther apart if they wish. Captives can't, and that makes all the difference.

Territorial species like veileds and panthers (honestly the most likely species the typical buyer is ever going to see) cannot be housed in the same limited space. If you had a room with lots of separated trees and visual cover, multiple basking spots, feeding stations, drinking stations you might get away with it. You would have to be watching their behavior very closely on a daily basis and change things up if any of the chams start to decline. I've housed 3 adult melleri in a bedroom free range. They all tolerated it. Most cham buyers are not giving up entire rooms for 2 lizards. For the sake of your chams...don't try. The typical 24x36x48 cham cage? Forget it entirely.

Thank you for expanding on this. I appreciate it. I am really only familiar with the husbandry of Panthers and Veileds. I have read about pygmies being more social but not the details of their enclosures. That was very interesting!

 

[marcsman16]

@jamest0o0 ive heard that female parsons cans be somewhat social, even to the point of seeking each other out to sleep together. Ever heard that?

That would be cute!

 

[alphakenc]

Species that have a reputation for being somewhat communal still need to be housed in a large enough space. You can't cram 4 pygmy chams in a tiny aquarium. You could put the same 4 in a very large densely planted terrarium that allows each animal to retreat from the others, get enough food, drink and rest in peace. Some people have kept Meller's chameleons in loose groups but once again the SPACE and how it is designed are critical. Even if they get along some of the time if females are gravid the males may keep pestering them to the point they end up stressed out, sick, dehydrated, malnourished, or even injured. Captive chams don't have nearly the same choice in where they spend their time, how often they must interact with another cham, how well they can retreat from them. Wild ones might live in adjacent trees or shrubs. Even if they are somewhat close together all the chams "know" they can space themselves even farther apart if they wish. Captives can't, and that makes all the difference.

Territorial species like veileds and panthers (honestly the most likely species the typical buyer is ever going to see) cannot be housed in the same limited space. If you had a room with lots of separated trees and visual cover, multiple basking spots, feeding stations, drinking stations you might get away with it. You would have to be watching their behavior very closely on a daily basis and change things up if any of the chams start to decline. I've housed 3 adult melleri in a bedroom free range. They all tolerated it. Most cham buyers are not giving up entire rooms for 2 lizards. For the sake of your chams...don't try. The typical 24x36x48 cham cage? Forget it entirely.

Miss Carlton,U love to be the teacher of the day ...do u ?..lol...class dismiss ..save by the wisdom bell

 

[Carlton]

That would be cute!

Once in a while an exception crops up between two species but DO NOT count on it!!!

I kept a wc male T. deremensis and a wc male B. fischeri in a huge divided cage once. I would have free ranged them but needed the cage to provide the higher humidity the room never would. Started noticing the fischeri kept squeezing his way past the divider (he roamed almost constantly no matter how I arranged the cage) onto the "other" side. Of course I kept separating the two each time it happened, but the reality was the deremensis lurked down in the lower shady cooler parts of the cage and the fischeri roamed the brighter warmer upper areas. I spied on them, readjusted the cage and the divider multiple times but neither of them seemed to care about the intruder. I took the divider out and watched like a hawk. Nothing happened. They simply tolerated each other because the overall cage space was large enough.

Then the big shocker. I caught both of them sleeping on the same perch, so close together their toes were touching. It kept happening. Eventually I had to rehome them before moving to Alaska. They were adopted by another keeper in the midwest. She set them up in a big fiberglass and screen tub-shower surround in her basement. Once again, the two co-existed peacefully. Somewhere I have a hard copy photo to prove it.

Funny thing was, both of them were quite pissy around any other creature; humans included. They had no problem with each other.

 

[Mawtyplant]

I keep my melleri together.. but.. they like in a large room free range and everyone got 1 individual basking, uvb, food, poop and sleeping spot
I highly doubt I can do the same for veiled.. they are not super tolerant to others in field of view.. or panthers (for the same reason) I think some others species can if the enclosure is perfectly big and set up for more than one like bradypodions or pygmys but.. if your chameleons experience is limited, you will only lead your experience to a dead in!

 

[Daesie11]

Once in a while an exception crops up between two species but DO NOT count on it!!!

I kept a wc male T. deremensis and a wc male B. fischeri in a huge divided cage once. I would have free ranged them but needed the cage to provide the higher humidity the room never would. Started noticing the fischeri kept squeezing his way past the divider (he roamed almost constantly no matter how I arranged the cage) onto the "other" side. Of course I kept separating the two each time it happened, but the reality was the deremensis lurked down in the lower shady cooler parts of the cage and the fischeri roamed the brighter warmer upper areas. I spied on them, readjusted the cage and the divider multiple times but neither of them seemed to care about the intruder. I took the divider out and watched like a hawk. Nothing happened. They simply tolerated each other because the overall cage space was large enough.

Then the big shocker. I caught both of them sleeping on the same perch, so close together their toes were touching. It kept happening. Eventually I had to rehome them before moving to Alaska. They were adopted by another keeper in the midwest. She set them up in a big fiberglass and screen tub-shower surround in her basement. Once again, the two co-existed peacefully. Somewhere I have a hard copy photo to prove it.

Funny thing was, both of them were quite pissy around any other creature; humans included. They had no problem with each other.

This story almost made me cry

 

[Carlton]

I keep my melleri together.. but.. they like in a large room free range and everyone got 1 individual basking, uvb, food, poop and sleeping spot
I highly doubt I can do the same for veiled.. they are not super tolerant to others in field of view.. or panthers (for the same reason) I think some others species can if the enclosure is perfectly big and set up for more than one like bradypodions or pygmys but.. if your chameleons experience is limited, you will only lead your experience to a dead in!

So much depends on how well YOU know your particular chams, how well YOU understand cham behaviors, and also how quickly YOU can detect any signs of stress and failure to thrive. It would be downright irresponsible for a less experienced cham keeper to attempt this. But it never fails...people keep trying so they don't have to maintain two setups. At least the trainable ones find this forum and ask before their chams end up suffering or dying.