How do chameleons in the wild survive without supplements?
- Thread starter suprdude
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terrahm
Member
The amount of all these calcium and multivitamin supplements in the wild is crazy. In the wild, chameleons eat hundreds of different bugs and those bugs take in tons of different natural supplements based on their natural environment. Chams in captivity are fed a fraction of those bugs and most only get captive bred crickets and some worms. Basically just supplementing to replace what they would be getting, but it's hard to replicate. I hope I worded this alright 
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
Im still not convinced. Calcium is a poison to "most" bugs. Aka Mr plant uses it for a bug deterrent. Maybe they natrually dust themselves with dirt that has a bit of calcium? Is there a secret snail population everywhere? Does God come down and give each cham a silky every morning and we just dont see it?
Or is it something else like natty lighting destroys enough phosphorus that the wee amount of calcium in the bug evens out the calcium to phosphorus ratio?
Or is it something else like natty lighting destroys enough phosphorus that the wee amount of calcium in the bug evens out the calcium to phosphorus ratio?
Kamikaze Chameleon
Avid Member
I believe it was discussed in another thread but bugs absorb UV Ray's from the sun, im not sure how that makes them more nutritious but chams also eat alot of bees in the wild which are typically carrying the pollen which has alot of nutritional value and they probably get the rest from the wide variety available in wild.
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I believe he who shall not be named said something about some minerals and such being present in dust. Nature has figured everything out and we struggle to understand how.
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
Craptastic nutritional value flying feeders that get massive amounts of sun like have good calcium to phosphorus ratios relative to calories makes a lot of sense.
Wild chams are not eating juicy loaded dubia and crickets, since chameleons are not rutting around under things. They are eating flying food with just a wee bit of meat on them (else they couldnt fly).
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
Calcium is present in rain water.
is there calcium in rain water?
As noted, other vitamins are found in the wide assortment of insects available in the chameleon's natural environment. When we keep them, it's in a pretty sterile (controlled) environment, so we have to supplement what's missing.
It's been suggested that feeding insects from our environment might reduce or eliminate the need for supplementation, but that comes with some downsides—one being, who's got the time to go out and wrangle fresh insects every day (especially in northern regions); another being the risk of parasites, disease, chemical contamination from pesticides/pollution, and others.
Contaminant risks exist in the wild as well, as partly reflected in shorter lifespans.
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
I stopped listening to "He" when he though white muscle on veiled legs was fat stores, and didnt take down the video nor annotate/correct it, claiming it was a learning experience and was correct at the time. I even called him out on it the moment he posted the video because i wanted to know what was in the veil. "bro are you sure thats fat, i dont think reptiles marble fat in muscle like the rare cows".
I haven't heard 'he' mention the dust on the leaves thing in a long time. Probably because at the time he was saying that they ingested the dust when they drank droplets off of the leaves. With the new postulate that they get their hydration from overnight humidity, that went out the window.
A theory that makes sense to me is that with natural sunlight the chameleon has the proper levels of D3 to fully utilize the small amount of calcium etc. they encounter in their wild diet. Since crickets with their horrible calcium phosphorus ratio are not the bulk of their diet they do well enough to survive and reproduce and maintain the wild population. We ask our chameleons to do more than that and want a longer life span on a more convenient diet with artificial light and use supplements to make up the difference.
A theory that makes sense to me is that with natural sunlight the chameleon has the proper levels of D3 to fully utilize the small amount of calcium etc. they encounter in their wild diet. Since crickets with their horrible calcium phosphorus ratio are not the bulk of their diet they do well enough to survive and reproduce and maintain the wild population. We ask our chameleons to do more than that and want a longer life span on a more convenient diet with artificial light and use supplements to make up the difference.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
This exactly is what I think. Another thing is, eating vertebrates, snails, isopods, and other high calcium items.
Something else people forget, animals don't live long in the wild! Our gutloads are superior to what they get in the wild, along with our supplements and pretty much everything else. The only thing most lack in captivity is natural sun and variety of insects. Unnatural methods are why humans live into the 80s-90s instead of half that. The same could be said for a lot of animals.
Arpretty
Avid Member
My theory: unadulterated vitamins and minerals are found in rain/water, invertebrates, vertebrates, plants, and soil in a natural environment. Elsewhere too, probably. A healthy chameleon would likely be exposed to a wide array of resources for vitamins and minerals. But, some will miss out on certain components. It’s probably a game of “right place, right time.” I highly doubt all wild chameleons are in glowing health; there will be deficiencies present as nature dictates.
I think of it as similar to humans. SO, so much of our environment, resources, and processes are altered. Heavily. Thus, we need to supplement and/or make conscious decisions to pack ourselves with a healthful variety to increase the likelihood of transporting valuable nutrients.
That said, our insects are adulterated; they are farmed, contained, and fed what we have access to - the carrots I buy at the store are probably lacking their full potential of vitamin and mineral supply. Tracing this back to the production and farming process. I see it as making a full circle and it may be beneficial to provide supplements for chameleons who are really only now adapting to domestic life.
I think of it as similar to humans. SO, so much of our environment, resources, and processes are altered. Heavily. Thus, we need to supplement and/or make conscious decisions to pack ourselves with a healthful variety to increase the likelihood of transporting valuable nutrients.
That said, our insects are adulterated; they are farmed, contained, and fed what we have access to - the carrots I buy at the store are probably lacking their full potential of vitamin and mineral supply. Tracing this back to the production and farming process. I see it as making a full circle and it may be beneficial to provide supplements for chameleons who are really only now adapting to domestic life.
Very interesting! I've always wondered the same, then I think about chameleons in the wild and they are eating everything and have natural lighting. Just makes since to me that if we want an animal to be captive, there are things we lack in our homes that we have to make up for.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Off topic, but I don't think anyone here could find a post where WC insects transferred parasites to their chameleon. I'd say 99.9% of cases are from captive insects kept around wild caught reptiles. IMO By the numbers, you risk your animal more feeding them crickets from the pet store than you do rounding up a 100 bugs from the woods.
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
And the parasites on/in the wild bugs, are not transferable to reptiles 99.9% of the time. Yes the horse hair worm looked like a horror movie, but still tasty and harmless.
How many horse hair worms have you eaten and how do you prepare them?
Seriously if you are catching wild bugs in an area not populated by chameleons or where pesticides are in use the risk is low. That said there is always a minute risk of other reptile parasites making a wrong turn in the chameleon and causing problems. It won't replicate in the chameleon and it's life cycle will end. It is just something your veterinarian should be aware of if a problem develops. Lost parasites can still migrate through organs and cause disruption. Again there is a very low incidence of this it's just something to be aware of.
Seriously if you are catching wild bugs in an area not populated by chameleons or where pesticides are in use the risk is low. That said there is always a minute risk of other reptile parasites making a wrong turn in the chameleon and causing problems. It won't replicate in the chameleon and it's life cycle will end. It is just something your veterinarian should be aware of if a problem develops. Lost parasites can still migrate through organs and cause disruption. Again there is a very low incidence of this it's just something to be aware of.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
Also, it depends on where one lives. In areas where chameleons have established wild populations (e.g. FL, HI, CA) the chances increase, as the life cycles of parasites adapt to include chameleon hosts.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Agreed, I've thought of this. I have a few friends in FL and areas like that, who feed WC regularly, even eat anoles, and idk of any that had problems. I do imagine the risk is higher there though. Brody, who we rarely see here anymore, fed his wild insects I think almost 100% of the time and he lives in Louisiana. Never had issues that I know of. Mine eats a lot up here in the north over summer.
Point is, it's possible, but how many problems do we see from store bought insects?
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
It was more of a cross-post. I had already composed when your post came up, and I didn't quite pick up on it.
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