how do you choose which photo?

[pigglett79]

After many devastating losses I would like to find out just how everyone decides which photo to vote for. I thought the majority would vote based on photo quality, effort and creativity. I would love to hear your response to help me better understand how the results come out the way they do.

I am sure you can infer that this thread comes from my loss this month. All of the previous losses were devastating, but this one even more so. We worked so hard and everything in our photo was real and not photo shopped. I made the antlers and was sure that the creativity and quality would at least place. I don't know what else we could have done. I'm not trying to be a sore loser, I would really just like to hear opinions.

 

[ReptiGeek]

Haha ya it does suck. I took photography throughout highschool and have won multiple photography contests, yet for some reason when it comes to these photo contests I maybe get 1 or 2 votes. I think part of the reason might be because people think my photos are photoshopped, yet I never use any editing software. The photo I take is the photo that gets entered. If you are good enough at photography you don't need to edit your photos. You adjust the setting on your camera to capture the perfect light and you get the photo you want. I wouldn't be so devastated about not winning though. Honestly, not winning has never bothered me. You are entering a contest for free, so you shouldn't be disappointing if you don't win anything from it. At the end of it all, you got to take photos that YOU liked of your chameleon, and to me that's all that really matters. Though my photo (baby veiled with the christmas lights bokeh in the background) only got 1 vote this month I still used it for another photo contest and won a 2x2x4 screen enclosure! I think this site really goes from popularity. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. If a member is constantly helping people with their posts, they deserve to win a photography contest

I'm sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear. Just keep trying and hopefully you'll succeed someday

 

[pigglett79]

Yeah, I'm not really interested in the prize....I am more interested in the satisfaction of winning. I don't need a $50 gift card, I would be happier about the little ribbon under my name. I do agree that it is more of a popularity contest, but that helpfulness and popularity isn't the same as a photo contest winner. I would like to see contests that do not list the members name. I know the chameleons may be recognized, but it might be more fair if you only see the picture and not the member name attached. I guess I just take it too seriously.

 

[maxttu]

I haven't paid any attention to the winners. Is the winner always a veiled? Or panther? Or Parsonii? I wonder if people are voting on species more than anything else? I wouldn't mind the ribbon either, but I guess I would need to enter the contest in order to win, huh?

 

[Olimpia]

Popularity does certainly play into it, fortunately or unfortunately, and at the end of the day this isn't a photography forum so people vote for lots of reasons that aren't necessarily relevant to the quality of the photo. It is what it is, so if people see a Parson's or a panther that they really love/respect/envy they'll vote for it, not necessarily because the photo itself is extraordinary.

But you have to keep trying! I must have entered 2 dozen contests over the years and have only placed in 4. I would HOPE that no one is voting for me purely out of who I am or out of loyalty to me or my chameleon, but I can't help it if they do. I just hope that's not the priority!

Just keep trying! Sooner or later you'll place, I think creativity will pay off for you.

If anyone ever wants an honest critique I can definitely provide it by PM, I'm happy to do so. I think most people on here know I have a background in art and photography, so I'll do my best to critique constructively.

 

[PantherEnvy]

1. Original creativity.
2. Clear precise picture.
3. Possible effort involved in capturing the image.
4. Political- I admit, I love Panthers and people I am friends with...

 

[Decadancin]

I have to say that I do love the creativity and "emotion" on the subject's face, and I do pay attention to the quality of the shot. There are usually at least 6 or 7 really good shots and two or three that are amazing! This was a really great contest for December, and I loved the enthusiasm people showed, but in the end sometimes "cute" just wins! I don't think there is as much favoritism as you think, because if there were, Zaphod would have won . Isn't he everyone's favorite?!? Keep entering and GOOD LUCK!!! (Can't wait to see the next entry )

 

[lovepicasso]

For what it is worth, I did think your photo had the best originality and I could tell that a lot of time and effort went into it.....Steve does professional nature photos and said that photo-shop and a few other programs possible on the Internet has ruined real photography,anyone can create a good photo now, there is no need to have any knowledge of how to use the manual functions of a camera or even the beginner functions...I could go on and on, he really hates it and never uses any post photo applications....I will be glad when he gets back into his studio and gets some pro shots of Picasso.
He told me, your photo had the best thought and creative concept, should have won.

 

[pigglett79]

Thank you for the well thought out input. I really do appreciate hearing your thoughts. It makes me feel better, given that I was so hurt and let down after not even placing.

 

[Miss Lily]

I used to feel the same way you do - I am not posting this to 'rub it in'. I know exactly how it feels to lose out more than once. I have been entering these contests since 2008 and have only placed 4 times. All of these places have been for photos of my Jackson cham since I got him at the end of October 2011. Whenever I entered photos of my Veileds they were always overshadowed by one or two others. The December contest was my first ever win. Also for me, it's not about the prize (as there are currently no European sponsors, which makes it kind of difficult to claim!) - the appearance of the medal under my name is reward enough.

 

[pigglett79]

I used to feel the same way you do - I am not posting this to 'rub it in'. I know exactly how it feels to lose out more than once. I have been entering these contests since 2008 and have only placed 4 times. All of these places have been for photos of my Jackson cham since I got him at the end of October 2011. Whenever I entered photos of my Veileds they were always overshadowed by one or two others. The December contest was my first ever win. Also for me, it's not about the prize (as there are currently no European sponsors, which makes it kind of difficult to claim!) - the appearance of the medal under my name is reward enough.

Thank you miss Lilly. I do love your photos. And I feel the same way, it's not about the prize, I would be happy to see the ribbon under my name.

 

[Hakai]

personally, I'm not a fan of adding props to chameleon photos. I prefer pictures where you can capture them in a rare state. Doing something chameleons normally don't do. jmo.

 

[thiago1311]

So sad to know that the photos come by popularity and not by the real value it has.

This is my first time in competition, if the picture is to win by popularity, will be my last.

For what it is worth, I did think your photo had the best originality and I could tell that a lot of time and effort went into it.....Steve does professional nature photos and said that photo-shop and a few other programs possible on the Internet has ruined real photography,anyone can create a good photo now, there is no need to have any knowledge of how to use the manual functions of a camera or even the beginner functions...I could go on and on, he really hates it and never uses any post photo applications....I will be glad when he gets back into his studio and gets some pro shots of Picasso.
He told me, your photo had the best thought and creative concept, should have won.

I'm also a photographer, and I have to say that this idea that photoshop or some other program edition should not be used or ruin the photos. This idea is totally wrong.

The edition of images is provided for more than 100 years ago, everything photoshop does today, there were already 100 years ago in the manual photography. The photoshop are brought to digital what already was done 100 years ago in the manual.

Many renowned photographers, today and past use or have used some sort of edition on your images, you can look and you will see that almost everywhere there edition.

The important thing is to make your photos look as natural as possible or not. Everything depends on the emotion that the photographer wants to convey through photography.

 

[Olimpia]

Like I mentioned earlier, this is not a photography forum, and probably a good 70% of all photos shared on this forum lately were taken by an iPhone. So you can't expect the people on this forum to have the same photography standards as perhaps a professional photography forum - here, most people are probably, generally, going to vote for a photo because it's cute or funny, colorful, has a chameleon they love/envy, or because it belongs to a friend. And not based on more technical attributes.

That said, I definitely vote for the photo which I consider technically the best. I try not to even look down at the photographer's name so I don't let that sway me one way or another.

 

[Thegreatfonz]

You guys are too serious, I just look for the picture that makes me go "WOW!" Doesnt have to be creative just a good quality pic.

 

[Jupiter]

So I know I’m a little late to this party, but I’m an art student and I think this is a really awesome discussion, so I’m going to go ahead and practice the dread art of thread necromancy and bring this baby back to life.

First, there are a few statements that have been made that I just have to comment on.

Haha ya it does suck. I took photography throughout highschool and have won multiple photography contests, yet for some reason when it comes to these photo contests I maybe get 1 or 2 votes. I think part of the reason might be because people think my photos are photoshopped, yet I never use any editing software. The photo I take is the photo that gets entered. If you are good enough at photography you don't need to edit your photos. You adjust the setting on your camera to capture the perfect light and you get the photo you want. I wouldn't be so devastated about not winning though. Honestly, not winning has never bothered me. You are entering a contest for free, so you shouldn't be disappointing if you don't win anything from it. At the end of it all, you got to take photos that YOU liked of your chameleon, and to me that's all that really matters. Though my photo (baby veiled with the christmas lights bokeh in the background) only got 1 vote this month I still used it for another photo contest and won a 2x2x4 screen enclosure! I think this site really goes from popularity. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. If a member is constantly helping people with their posts, they deserve to win a photography contest

I'm sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear. Just keep trying and hopefully you'll succeed someday

…I don’t really know how to say this but you’re…wrong.

Everyone, EVERYONE, edits their photos. I mean yes, camera control is a huge part of it and you do that get that one shot out of every thousand that is just perfect, but editing is a HUGE part of photography, and has been before Photoshop. Especially before PS actually. If you’ve ever shot with film you know that literally 10% of your time is spent shooting and the rest is spent in the darkroom editing and tweaking the print. You really can’t not edit in darkroom, since there is no distinction between it and “just” developing the print. The earliest photography was pretty much entirely editing, as they spent most of their time messing with chemicals trying to get the image to stay. Every professional photographer I’ve talked to (and I’ve talked to a lot, from friends in high school who were wedding/senior photo/pay me and I’ll take you some nice pics photographers, all the way up to my current teachers, who are fine artists whose work hangs in galleries and museums and sells for thousands of dollars) has stressed that. Hell, Ansel Adams is probably the biggest name in photography period, and I’ve seen a pic of a print that was done straight from one of his negatives, with no dodging and burning. It looked like crap.

That being said, ReptiGeek, please don’t take this as an attack or me “blowing up”. Your pics are awesome and you’ve got undeniable skill, I’m just saying there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and using programs like Photoshop (or doing dodging and burning and/or spot toning if you’re shooting with film) is a great way to facilitate that.

On a similar note…

For what it is worth, I did think your photo had the best originality and I could tell that a lot of time and effort went into it.....Steve does professional nature photos and said that photo-shop and a few other programs possible on the Internet has ruined real photography,anyone can create a good photo now, there is no need to have any knowledge of how to use the manual functions of a camera or even the beginner functions...I could go on and on, he really hates it and never uses any post photo applications....I will be glad when he gets back into his studio and gets some pro shots of Picasso.
He told me, your photo had the best thought and creative concept, should have won.

How exactly does making the tools to create art more widely available ruin it? Because the club isn’t exclusive any more? Because you have to learn some new skills to keep up? Sounds like some curmudgeonly Luddite thinking to me. That’s like saying the power drill ruined the screwdriver, or to use an analogy more related to photography, that the light meter ruined squinting at stuff. Photography as a whole is just like that, 200 years ago if you wanted to create an image, you had to spend a few years learning how to paint first. So yeah, I feel like that’s kind of an inherently hypocritical statement for a photographer to make, or anyone who uses tools with moving parts and electricity for that matter. Besides, I feel like most people can tell the difference between some sorority chick’s instragrammed pic of a bunch of Bacardi bottles and say, The Steerage, anyway.

Again, not trying to offend anyone here. Like I said, I’m an art student and I get passionate about this stuff.

Now, as for the main discussion, I think it is unfortunate that people take popularity and things like that into it, but it’s also kind of inevitable. One of the first things you learn at art school is how important it is to differentiate between the art and the artist. (It takes some legitimate practice to get used to praising something by someone you hate, or trashing your friend’s work.) It really is important though. I mean Picasso put a cigarette out on his wife’s face! That’s horrible! He’s still the most influential artist of the 20th century in many peoples eyes (though not in mine, that would be Duchamp, Duchamp, Duchamp all the way ), and rightly so, he has some amazing work. Braveheart didn’t get any worse when Mel Gibson had his whole anti-Semetic freak out a few years ago, ect.

I’ve basically been thinking of the entries first and foremost in the postmodern sense, like I do with fine art, which is to say as a trigger for an experience, rather then an object (or image, in this case). So following that line of thinking I might say oh this has the nicest composition or that has the nicest light, but if there is some goofy pic that makes me bust out in a belly laugh, I’m probably going to vote for it even if it’s not that technically or aesthetically exciting. And I’m just using humor as an example; there could definitely be one that is just visually beautiful enough to get my deep gears turning, a la Rothko, or some crazy visceral action shot or something.

After looking through and seeing if any fit into that first category and jump out at me, I go back and get a little more analytical, and start looking at them in terms of form and content. That’s definitely much less of a can of worms then it is with fine art, since I think its safe to say that virtually all of the pics that get entered are almost entirely formal, as opposed to conceptual. By that I mean that people’s intention when they create the image is to capture a really nice pic of a cham, rather then to communicate an idea. (That’s a generalization, I’m sure there are exceptions. I know I tried to spice mine up with some conceptual content via the title). A lot of the time I spend looking at fine art is spent investigating how/if the form supports the content, (an obvious example of that would be using a lot of diagonals to add tension to an image), but because there really isn’t all that much content to these images, I can pretty much go right to the form. Now, that being said, the majority of the entries are portraits of an individual chameleon, so there is the possibility for some content there, such as capturing an expression that seems to portray an emotion particularly well (or one that we can project an emotion on to, as the case may be), or having some sort of narrative going on.

Formally, the cham is obviously going to play a huge role, but it’s not a beauty pageant, so that can’t be all. Instead, I like to see how it’s used in the overall composition, and how its forms and colors interact with those of its surroundings. It’s not enough to just have a beautiful cham (all chams are beautiful anyway), I want to see its beauty enhance/be enhanced by its surroundings. Judging by the cham itself is just unfair. Parsons are awesome, but your life has to be in a pretty specific situation to accommodate them, one that most people are not in.

I don’t really take technicality into it much, unless it’s something like some of giseles recent pics, where its just too impressive to ignore. I do take a good look at colors and black levels, although I have to keep in mind that I’m not viewing it on the screen it was edited on. The only other thing I take off points for is if I go to view full size and it blows up to the size of the galaxy because it wasn’t resized.

So yeah, that’s basically my thinking on it. I know I went a little overboard there, but I like talking about this kind of stuff and I’m on break so I haven’t had a chance to do it in a while. I’m definitely interested to see how the contest turns out, and I really like all the entries, even if they don’t all meet the standards I just described. I do hope it’s not too much of a popularity contest though. It seems like if someone helps you out, you should give them reputation, that’s the express purpose of that feature. Anyway, I hope this doesn’t just get met with crickets chirping, I would really like to continue this discussion.

 

[ReptiGeek]

No offence taken Jupiter. I merely state that because that was how I was taught photography. In the darkroom my teacher refused my editing. He wanted what he called "pure" photos. So ever since being taught under his wing, I have rarely edited my photos, even if taken on my DSLR. Besides, I hated using photoshop. Sitting in front of a computer, burning my eyes out and ruining my posture was never for me Haha,
But anyways, thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Trav

 

[thiago1311]

So I know I’m a little late to this party, but I’m an art student and I think this is a really awesome discussion, so I’m going to go ahead and practice the dread art of thread necromancy and bring this baby back to life.

First, there are a few statements that have been made that I just have to comment on.



…I don’t really know how to say this but you’re…wrong.

Everyone, EVERYONE, edits their photos. I mean yes, camera control is a huge part of it and you do that get that one shot out of every thousand that is just perfect, but editing is a HUGE part of photography, and has been before Photoshop. Especially before PS actually. If you’ve ever shot with film you know that literally 10% of your time is spent shooting and the rest is spent in the darkroom editing and tweaking the print. You really can’t not edit in darkroom, since there is no distinction between it and “just” developing the print. The earliest photography was pretty much entirely editing, as they spent most of their time messing with chemicals trying to get the image to stay. Every professional photographer I’ve talked to (and I’ve talked to a lot, from friends in high school who were wedding/senior photo/pay me and I’ll take you some nice pics photographers, all the way up to my current teachers, who are fine artists whose work hangs in galleries and museums and sells for thousands of dollars) has stressed that. Hell, Ansel Adams is probably the biggest name in photography period, and I’ve seen a pic of a print that was done straight from one of his negatives, with no dodging and burning. It looked like crap.

That being said, ReptiGeek, please don’t take this as an attack or me “blowing up”. Your pics are awesome and you’ve got undeniable skill, I’m just saying there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and using programs like Photoshop (or doing dodging and burning and/or spot toning if you’re shooting with film) is a great way to facilitate that.

On a similar note…



How exactly does making the tools to create art more widely available ruin it? Because the club isn’t exclusive any more? Because you have to learn some new skills to keep up? Sounds like some curmudgeonly Luddite thinking to me. That’s like saying the power drill ruined the screwdriver, or to use an analogy more related to photography, that the light meter ruined squinting at stuff. Photography as a whole is just like that, 200 years ago if you wanted to create an image, you had to spend a few years learning how to paint first. So yeah, I feel like that’s kind of an inherently hypocritical statement for a photographer to make, or anyone who uses tools with moving parts and electricity for that matter. Besides, I feel like most people can tell the difference between some sorority chick’s instragrammed pic of a bunch of Bacardi bottles and say, The Steerage, anyway.

Again, not trying to offend anyone here. Like I said, I’m an art student and I get passionate about this stuff.

Now, as for the main discussion, I think it is unfortunate that people take popularity and things like that into it, but it’s also kind of inevitable. One of the first things you learn at art school is how important it is to differentiate between the art and the artist. (It takes some legitimate practice to get used to praising something by someone you hate, or trashing your friend’s work.) It really is important though. I mean Picasso put a cigarette out on his wife’s face! That’s horrible! He’s still the most influential artist of the 20th century in many peoples eyes (though not in mine, that would be Duchamp, Duchamp, Duchamp all the way ), and rightly so, he has some amazing work. Braveheart didn’t get any worse when Mel Gibson had his whole anti-Semetic freak out a few years ago, ect.

I’ve basically been thinking of the entries first and foremost in the postmodern sense, like I do with fine art, which is to say as a trigger for an experience, rather then an object (or image, in this case). So following that line of thinking I might say oh this has the nicest composition or that has the nicest light, but if there is some goofy pic that makes me bust out in a belly laugh, I’m probably going to vote for it even if it’s not that technically or aesthetically exciting. And I’m just using humor as an example; there could definitely be one that is just visually beautiful enough to get my deep gears turning, a la Rothko, or some crazy visceral action shot or something.

After looking through and seeing if any fit into that first category and jump out at me, I go back and get a little more analytical, and start looking at them in terms of form and content. That’s definitely much less of a can of worms then it is with fine art, since I think its safe to say that virtually all of the pics that get entered are almost entirely formal, as opposed to conceptual. By that I mean that people’s intention when they create the image is to capture a really nice pic of a cham, rather then to communicate an idea. (That’s a generalization, I’m sure there are exceptions. I know I tried to spice mine up with some conceptual content via the title). A lot of the time I spend looking at fine art is spent investigating how/if the form supports the content, (an obvious example of that would be using a lot of diagonals to add tension to an image), but because there really isn’t all that much content to these images, I can pretty much go right to the form. Now, that being said, the majority of the entries are portraits of an individual chameleon, so there is the possibility for some content there, such as capturing an expression that seems to portray an emotion particularly well (or one that we can project an emotion on to, as the case may be), or having some sort of narrative going on.

Formally, the cham is obviously going to play a huge role, but it’s not a beauty pageant, so that can’t be all. Instead, I like to see how it’s used in the overall composition, and how its forms and colors interact with those of its surroundings. It’s not enough to just have a beautiful cham (all chams are beautiful anyway), I want to see its beauty enhance/be enhanced by its surroundings. Judging by the cham itself is just unfair. Parsons are awesome, but your life has to be in a pretty specific situation to accommodate them, one that most people are not in.

I don’t really take technicality into it much, unless it’s something like some of giseles recent pics, where its just too impressive to ignore. I do take a good look at colors and black levels, although I have to keep in mind that I’m not viewing it on the screen it was edited on. The only other thing I take off points for is if I go to view full size and it blows up to the size of the galaxy because it wasn’t resized.

So yeah, that’s basically my thinking on it. I know I went a little overboard there, but I like talking about this kind of stuff and I’m on break so I haven’t had a chance to do it in a while. I’m definitely interested to see how the contest turns out, and I really like all the entries, even if they don’t all meet the standards I just described. I do hope it’s not too much of a popularity contest though. It seems like if someone helps you out, you should give them reputation, that’s the express purpose of that feature. Anyway, I hope this doesn’t just get met with crickets chirping, I would really like to continue this discussion.

Good job =D

That's what i mean!

 

[Solid Snake]

I vote for whoever deposits the most in my paypal

 

[Jupiter]

You wouldn't happen to be a senator would you?