How do you withstand this?

[Sonny13]

I’m still really, really enlightened to have found this forum and to keeping chameleons.

The thing is, I have seen and done some things life, however when I see half of the posts here, I get tears in my eyes. With all the information on the web and especially on this platform, how can people still be such worthless caretakers!! For sure you want do every time perfect in the beginning (experienced that myself), still I’ve been raised with the mentality to listen to the more experienced ones, especially when you’re new.

It brings massive joy here, sharing information, getting educated, but in meantime it’s heartbreaking. I know pet stores and vendors are pretty misleading. Still putting i.e. real plants and branches in your enclosure is cheaper then the fake commercial crap. So isn’t everyone doing it. Seeing enclosures with one or two branches and a fake bush, makes me mad and angry. They don’t put us humans in a closet with just a chair

Nobody here makes it a secret what’s the best for your cham, why can’t people just take that for granted.

I just want to speak out my words of respect for everyone here that spends its free time helping each other. And for still, with all your frustrations (and I know you got them) doing this.

I just rest my case, that I’m exceptionally happy, finally being a Cham owner and that have found this place

 

[AmandaS]

I agree, of course it is frustrating to see someone doing things wrong. Just remember how much misinformation is out there. Sometimes people dont know where to go for good advice. It is a wonderful feeling to be able to guide new keepers in the right direction. The reward in that outweighs the frustration, IMO. You're a value to the community if you can provide correct and helpful information in a welcoming and understanding manner, or point someone in the direction of someone who you think can help. I love this site, even with the sad situations I have seen.

 

[Shanar808]

I feel that we are amidst a movement in the change of husbandry requirements for chameleons. The information is still being studied and collected, thanks to the passion we all have for these awesome creatures. Maybe one day there will be almost as much correct info about chams as there is about cats and dogs, but until that day comes we have the forums and a few select sites to benefit from. The key is to continue to create a helpful and welcoming approach to those who come on here to ask for help. I know it’s frustrating when the advice is ignored, but some individuals learn better from their own mistakes, sadly at the chameleons expense.

I know I’m grateful for the community here. Just knowing I’m not alone in my obsession for keeping these beauties, helps alleviate the isolation I once felt in the hobby. I love the forums and all of you that are on this journey too.

 

[DeremensisBlue]

When I talk to the people that have cages that are totally wrong I can't imagine how they could get it so wrong. Especially when there is so much good information out there. But then I do a Google search on incognito mode so all of my chameleon related search history disappears and I am looking at the world through the eyes of someone just typing in "chameleon" for the first time. And then you start getting a feel for how confusing it is for a beginner. Add that to having an hour long discussion picking the brain of a pet store employee that has filled your cart with everything a chameleon needs from the shelves (which includes the Chameleon Kit, plastic leaves, bendy vines, and whatever lights/supplements are in stock) and you feel pretty confident you have done exhaustive research. Because you have. And you have spared no expense. You bought everything you were told. There is no sense that there is more information to be had out there. There is no sense that you need to join a community. There is no reason to think that what you have isn't right.

And then when you join an online community and hear completely conflicting information you have to make a decision as to whether you believe the professional in the pet store uniform or these strange, excitable (and, sometimes, frothing at the mouth) internet people.

So, yes, there is a constant need in the chameleon community for people who understand what it is like and are willing to help these newcomers adjust from where they are instead of where we are. And we have to do it knowing they have no idea who we are or how long we have been doing this. The digital frontlines are the wrong place for anyone who thinks they should be recognized. We start over with each newcomer. I often say, with the groups I help lead, I would rather train people who have compassion all about chameleons than try and get an expert to show compassion. So, yes, it is frustrating from our side, but we have to recognize it is beyond confusing for the poor newcomer. It takes a special person to be able to do this day in and day out!

 

[MissSkittles]

It is a challenge finding correct info on proper keeping of chameleons on line. I started with a chameleon and zero knowledge about any reptiles, much less chameleons. Fortunately for my sweet Grumpy, I focused in on the forum pretty quickly as the place for correct info and help. It just as easily could have gone another way though.
I feel really bad for those who were sold a chameleon kit and other useless crap and told by a pet store that is all they need...especially when it is someone who has limited finances and just isn’t able to afford all that they need. The ones which really break my heart are the kids with parents who don’t want to get involved and/or shell out any more money for a lizard.
There are days on the forum that my heart just can’t handle the sadness and occasionally idiocy of some posts and I need to take a brief break. For the most part though, I think we do make a difference in guiding and supporting new keepers and each other. It’s that glimmer of hope that I can help make the difference in the health and well being of an amazing animal that keeps bringing me back.

 

[jamest0o0]

I feel that we are amidst a movement in the change of husbandry requirements for chameleons. The information is still being studied and collected, thanks to the passion we all have for these awesome creatures. Maybe one day there will be almost as much correct info about chams as there is about cats and dogs, but until that day comes we have the forums and a few select sites to benefit from. The key is to continue to create a helpful and welcoming approach to those who come on here to ask for help. I know it’s frustrating when the advice is ignored, but some individuals learn better from their own mistakes, sadly at the chameleons expense.

I know I’m grateful for the community here. Just knowing I’m not alone in my obsession for keeping these beauties, helps alleviate the isolation I once felt in the hobby. I love the forums and all of you that are on this journey too.

Ugh and to think how many people do things wrong with dogs and cats still

 

[Sonny13]

Ugh and to think how many people do things wrong with dogs and cats still

All kind of pets

 

[nightanole]

Well Peta thinks we should not have pets because of all the miss treated lizards.

Its kinda the logic that drunk drivers kill alot of people, so we shouldnt drive cars.

Im still amazed some animals can survive and even flourish compared to others.

Tegu hidden from parents under teenagers bed and fed nothing but hot dogs and baloney for a year, no MBD and skin looks great. Mean while an experienced keeper is getting hunger strikes and shed issues.

Dog gets yearly checkups and top shelf food, lives house in masters bed, lives 14 years. Dog gets 2 cans of high salt Alpo per day and lives in a dog house, never bathed, lives 14 years...


There are plenty of herpers hear with excellent setups, that still require vet trips. mean while im sure there is countless $50 veileds that are thriving on zilla T8's and flukers corn cricket gut load.


hell my healthiest longest living veiled was fed nothing but pinkies and stickytonguefarms indoor, along with a vita-lite(T12 that probably put out .5 uvi if you hung from the screen directly under it) in a 2ft cube cage

 

[absolutbill]

I was just getting bloodwork done for a new job at a hospital and was talking to the nurse about chameleons (I have a 3/4 sleeve of my veiled Turk on my arm that she saw). She was talking about her daughter's veiled who is 8 and who she babysits. She described giving him warm baths and cuddling him with a towel. I started to tell her how wrong that was, but realized she had a needle poised above my arm so just said, "wow, 8 is amazing, great job". I'm guessing she wasn't lying about the age - she seemed really into babysitting Brain, and just didn't understand. I figured if the cham has truly lived 8 years then this wasn't going to hurt him as he must have been used to it by that point. Also, didn't want word getting around my new job that I was a weirdo.

 

[Spyro]

I’m still really, really enlightened to have found this forum and to keeping chameleons.

The thing is, I have seen and done some things life, however when I see half of the posts here, I get tears in my eyes. With all the information on the web and especially on this platform, how can people still be such worthless caretakers!! For sure you want do every time perfect in the beginning (experienced that myself), still I’ve been raised with the mentality to listen to the more experienced ones, especially when you’re new.

It brings massive joy here, sharing information, getting educated, but in meantime it’s heartbreaking. I know pet stores and vendors are pretty misleading. Still putting i.e. real plants and branches in your enclosure is cheaper then the fake commercial crap. So isn’t everyone doing it. Seeing enclosures with one or two branches and a fake bush, makes me mad and angry. They don’t put us humans in a closet with just a chair

Nobody here makes it a secret what’s the best for your cham, why can’t people just take that for granted.

I just want to speak out my words of respect for everyone here that spends its free time helping each other. And for still, with all your frustrations (and I know you got them) doing this.

I just rest my case, that I’m exceptionally happy, finally being a Cham owner and that have found this place

Sometimes, people are worthless caretakers of their animals because they haven't yet come across the correct information. I've had my chams for 5 years now and literally just found out about chameleonacademy.com last week. Luckily my chams don't have too many issues and I am working on fixing the current problems. It was eye-opening how much information is on that website and how much I had wrong in my setups.

 

[kinyonga]

@Sonny13 said..."I feel really bad for those who were sold a chameleon kit and other useless crap and told by a pet store that is all they need...especially when it is someone who has limited finances and just isn’t able to afford all that they need. The ones which really break my heart are the kids with parents who don’t want to get involved and/or shell out any more money for a lizard"...it's definitely a shame that the manufacturers of the chameleon kit haven't figured out that The kit needs improvement or at the very least that the stores wouldn't do something about it.
It breaks my heart too,when parents aren't supportive of the kids or make proper care of the pets thy get/allow their kids to get.

There is so much wrong info out there... I don't know how people can become aware of it being bad and land at the good/right sites
...hard o decide who is telling the right story.

 

[jamest0o0]

Well Peta thinks we should not have pets because of all the miss treated lizards.

Its kinda the logic that drunk drivers kill alot of people, so we shouldnt drive cars.

Im still amazed some animals can survive and even flourish compared to others.

Tegu hidden from parents under teenagers bed and fed nothing but hot dogs and baloney for a year, no MBD and skin looks great. Mean while an experienced keeper is getting hunger strikes and shed issues.

Dog gets yearly checkups and top shelf food, lives house in masters bed, lives 14 years. Dog gets 2 cans of high salt Alpo per day and lives in a dog house, never bathed, lives 14 years...


There are plenty of herpers hear with excellent setups, that still require vet trips. mean while im sure there is countless $50 veileds that are thriving on zilla T8's and flukers corn cricket gut load.


hell my healthiest longest living veiled was fed nothing but pinkies and stickytonguefarms indoor, along with a vita-lite(T12 that probably put out .5 uvi if you hung from the screen directly under it) in a 2ft cube cage

Extreme circumstances aside, a lot of it probably comes down to genetics. Like the people that live to 100+, they never seem to do anything special in particular. Or mesmorphs that have low body fat, high muscle with minimal work. That's my guess at least.

 

[Ambilobe123]

Remember, also, that the chameleonacademy.com method is not the only way. The breeder I got my panthers from has a wc male Ambilobe (my male’s sire) who is currently 6, and has been raised on only crickets, a coil uvb bulb and weekly d3 supplements. No MBD, and he is incredible- crazy colours, and 18 inches long. I have never said a word against his care, since it’s working. If he ever has issues, I will direct him to this site.

I do not believe in there being “the only way to raise a chameleon”. While many things do not work, and Bill Strand’s method is prominent to us on the forums, I believe we should be open- minded to some ideas other than the chameleon academy ‘s.

That being said, it can be frustrating when faced with clueless keepers. I have enjoyed helping and being helped out throughout the past year. I believe that being a part of this forum, and being patient with those on it is the best thing I can do for these animals. Keep informing, reading, learning, growing and sharing. It’s what this forum is for.

 

[Sonny13]

@Sonny13 said..."I feel really bad for those who were sold a chameleon kit and other useless crap and told by a pet store that is all they need...especially when it is someone who has limited finances and just isn’t able to afford all that they need. The ones which really break my heart are the kids with parents who don’t want to get involved and/or shell out any more money for a lizard"...it's definitely a shame that the manufacturers of the chameleon kit haven't figured out that The kit needs improvement or at the very least that the stores wouldn't do something about it.
It breaks my heart too,when parents aren't supportive of the kids or make proper care of the pets thy get/allow their kids to get.

There is so much wrong info out there... I don't know how people can become aware of it being bad and land at the good/right sites
...hard o decide who is telling the right story.

True.....have had the same path to walk. Another thing is I’m Dutch and google will give you first all national search results and that was basically the first information I found about chameleons. Even the online pet stores don’t give the most actual information.

It’s not only information, also creativity and understanding. Why buy such a large enclosure and don’t use the space. Every inch you use is an extra inch of living space for your animal, instead of just putting in one branch and one plant.

However don’t forget the red line here, it’s was all to pay may respects to all of you and great work doing, just out of good will

 

[jamest0o0]

Remember, also, that the chameleonacademy.com method is not the only way. The breeder I got my panthers from has a wc male Ambilobe (my male’s sire) who is currently 6, and has been raised on only crickets, a coil uvb bulb and weekly d3 supplements. No MBD, and he is incredible- crazy colours, and 18 inches long. I have never said a word against his care, since it’s working. If he ever has issues, I will direct him to this site.

I do not believe in there being “the only way to raise a chameleon”. While many things do not work, and Bill Strand’s method is prominent to us on the forums, I believe we should be open- minded to some ideas other than the chameleon academy ‘s.

That being said, it can be frustrating when faced with clueless keepers. I have enjoyed helping and being helped out throughout the past year. I believe that being a part of this forum, and being patient with those on it is the best thing I can do for these animals. Keep informing, reading, learning, growing and sharing. It’s what this forum is for.

It's not that there's only one way to do it, but there is one goal in mind. Like you said, he does weekly d3 supplements. I do similar during winter when my chameleon is indoors. Last year I didn't even use uvb, just supplemented. The goal is to have adequate levels of vit D in this case, whether it be from uvb, sun, supplements.. it doesn't matter much. The reason the lighting/conventional supplement schedule is recommended is because it's the easiest for newbies and has the least possibility of screw ups.

Same can be said for hydration methods. The goal is to hydrate with multiple options to choose from.

In your breeder's case, I feel like he'd be better off saving the electricity and skipping the coil bulb altogether lol.

 

[Beman]

I think this is an extremely hard hobby. I help a lot here in the forum focusing on Newbies. I have grown tremendously as a keeper over the last 2 1/2 years since getting Beman. My first year in the hobby I second guessed everything and panicked over everything. It took time to feel totally secure in what I provide, how I provide it, and content in all my enclosures.

I see the phrase "you did not do your research" in threads and it makes me cringe. It is not always that they did not do their research but most did in all the wrong places. Or they listened to the store employee for the "correct" items to buy. Being sensitive to that and the person on the other side of the keyboard is how we create change and an environment where people will learn.

I love that the chameleon academy exists. It is a thorough site for a newbie to learn everything they need to be successful. I spend much less time explaining all the aspects now that I can refer them there to learn all their basics.

I do believe there are multiple ways to achieve the same goals. That it is not just one way. However when it comes to things like UVB lighting. I would rather know that by telling them to use a T5HO fixture with a certain bulb strength at a certain distance that their cham is not going to develop MBD. Or a T8 with the specific info on bulb and distance. So that is all I recommend rather then coil bulbs. I prefer not to be the cause of incorrect info and the decline or death of their chameleon.

While I do get burnt out seeing week after week that a chameleon has died or is disfigured I have to remember the success stories. So every day I come back and every day I focus on the people I can help. Because that is what was done for me. People taking their time to educate me. Without people like Bill Strand and this forum I would have had a very poor outcome with Beman. And I most certainly would not have 3 beautiful healthy Veiled boys now.

 

[jamest0o0]

It's not really that hard given you know where to look. A lot of people just aren't aware there are highly educated online forums, or they don't know how to pick and choose who and who not to listen to. I do feel keeping a chameleon, or most reptiles, without a good source of information will end with a suffering/dead animal. They're easy to set up once you know what to do.

 

[Beman]

It's not really that hard given you know where to look. A lot of people just aren't aware there are highly educated online forums, or they don't know how to pick and choose who and who not to listen to. I do feel keeping a chameleon, or most reptiles, without a good source of information will end with a suffering/dead animal. They're easy to set up once you know what to do.

LOL I dunno... You are one of my mentors... Look at how often I freaked out the first year. I think it was more then just learning how and what to provide. I think learning Beman's behaviors was the hardest thing for me. Normal vs Abnormal. Being as how Beman was my very first reptile it was a totally different world for me. I did not know what meant what. And he was so low key and mellow it was not until getting Bane and Bentley that I really realized how across the map different they are in their behaviors.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

it's definitely a shame that the manufacturers of the chameleon kit haven't figured out that The kit needs improvement or at the very least that the stores wouldn't do something about it.

The mfrs. know it, but they have—or hire on a consulting basis—pricing analysts, who establish how much the average consumer is willing to pay for a setup, and the mfrs. fill the kit with products that meet that price point while maximizing their profit.

Stores rely on companies with well-known names to provide products to sell and advice on how to sell those products—right or wrong.

It breaks my heart too,when parents aren't supportive of the kids or make proper care of the pets thy get/allow their kids to get.

For the most part, parents are clueless what their kids are up to. As long as it's not drugs or sex, and grades are acceptable, there's a price point they're willing to shell out to keep kids out of trouble, leaving the research & care (right or wrong) up to the kids as a learning experience.

IDT most parents see a lizard as much different than a hamster, baby turtle, goldfish, etc.—except maybe for price. We see this often here; a kid has gotten a kit, but parents aren't willing to shell out any more when it's found the kit (and accompanying advice) are severely lacking.

There is so much wrong info out there... I don't know how people can become aware of it being bad and land at the good/right sites.

I don't disagree per se, but we all landed here, and more land here weekly.

...hard o decide who is telling the right story.

That goes for just about anything & everything.

 

[jamest0o0]

LOL I dunno... You are one of my mentors... Look at how often I freaked out the first year. I think it was more then just learning how and what to provide. I think learning Beman's behaviors was the hardest thing for me. Normal vs Abnormal. Being as how Beman was my very first reptile it was a totally different world for me. I did not know what meant what. And he was so low key and mellow it was not until getting Bane and Bentley that I really realized how across the map different they are in their behaviors.

But look, they turned out great! and none of the little things turned out to hurt him. Lol I freaked out about everything too when I got heavy into chams in 2016