How does your chameleon drink?

[Balien]

No, remove it completely. It has no place in a Cham viv.

I did try removing it, but he would drink from the bucket that I used to catch the water from his dripper instead. I figure this cup that I change daily is way more sanitary than water that has run over leaves and poo on its way down. I’m not sure how he was kept before I got him or why he does this, but I’ve never seen him drink from leaves, only from standing water

 

[Balien]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chameleons...out_of_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

I found this and thought it was very interesting

 

[Highway61]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chameleons...out_of_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

I found this and thought it was very interesting

Nice find, thanks!

Curious if you find the reddit article interesting because you don't buy it? It provides some very good reasons why standing water and chameleon care don't mix.

 

[JoshD49]

No, remove it completely. It has no place in a Cham viv.

I agree but I know the OP has no plans to do that so I was going with the next best thing.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Do I understand correctly that you keep a drainage bucket inside of your enclosure? I can’t comment on the water bowl as I know too little, but I’m pretty sure you should work on getting the drainage bucket out of the enclosure. I’ve drilled holes in the bottom of mine, set the heavy lay bin over it (with an open weave plastic sink mat between) to help direct the water down and have a bucket below.

 

[Balien]

I agree but I know the OP has no plans to do that so I was going with the next best thing.

Like I said above, I did try to remove it but he would drink dirty water rather than off of leaves.
I know it’s not ideal, but I don’t see what other options I have. I still mist, but that water source goes ignored.
I don’t want to be ignorant or rude, but what is the problem with this water source? It’s clean (bowls changed daily), it’s up high where he can’t go to the bathroom in it, and it’s not deep enough for him to drown.

 

[Balien]

Hi. Do I understand correctly that you keep a drainage bucket inside of your enclosure? I can’t comment on the water bowl as I know too little, but I’m pretty sure you should work on getting the drainage bucket out of the enclosure. I’ve drilled holes in the bottom of mine, set the heavy lay bin over it (with an open weave plastic sink mat between) to help direct the water down and have a bucket below.

The bucket is just used to catch water from his big dripper, I empty and clean it every time I refill the dripper. I do plan on improving the draining situation to get the bucket out of his reach though

 

[Balien]

Nice find, thanks!

Curious if you find the reddit article interesting because you don't buy it? It provides some very good reasons why standing water and chameleon care don't mix.

I actually meant to post a link to the reply to the post, but if you scroll down to the first reply there is a lot of information regarding the benefits of using a water glass. Here it is copied and pasted:

As the person that started this over a decade ago and have been the one promoting it on this subreddit... allow me to answer.

“Chameleons do not drink stagnant water in the wild. If only for the reason that this is a very unnatural thing to do you may want to reconsider this method.”

Who said we are allowing to be "stagnant"?
stagnant, as in,the water is teaming with bacteria, parasites and other multicelluar creatures. No, I'm always pointing our that the water has to be clean, with light shining on it and "sparkling".. fouled and cloudy water is not consumed instinctively.

“Stagnant water is easily contaminated. If anything falls into the water, (and it will) the water can be quickly dirtied by falling plant material, dead feeders, etc.”

This is actually the major problem with the "waterfalls". many people are told to go and buy as the water is "moving" . It's very common to have crickets fall into the water pool, die and foul the water. The chams usually can't tell and get sick from that or fecal drops into the fountain IF they're forced to drink from it. It's always something I recommend that people return for a cash refund... they're that bad.

A water glass being fouled by contrast is easily spotted and not used by the resident chameleon a non moving cricket is ignored unless it's a starved animal.. fecal matter quickly clouds the water and it will not be used by the chams. Fouling is also limited if the owner stops spraying/misting the cages so that water droplets contaminated with saliva eating bacteria and fecal smears do not get into the water supply.

“If you chameleon has a fall or jumps from their perch, (they are known to do this to avoid predators) and they fall headfirst into the cup. Guess what, you have a dead chameleon.”

I suggest a shotglass for training young animals that is moved up to a wide mouth drinking glass by subadult size. In over 10 years I've NEVER lost an animal due to having a glass in the cage, on the contrary I've had some individuals stick their entire heads into the glass and soak them... only to pull them out for a breath of air before dunking again. (fun?)

Regardless I have little fear of anything above a new hatchling getting into trouble and for good reason.. because they're natural swimmers If you are having problems with your chams running away from and leaping out of your hands blindly due to fear. Then i might suggest you think about how you're handling your animals as being improper.

Regarding misting: In general only very young animals really require misting (especially for the common species in the pet trade). Some of the montane cloud forest species are likely also require it in some environments that have very dry air But those are usually the more advanced level animals for advanced keepers.. and are outside of the discussion.

Back to hatchlings getting quickly dehydrated.

Because hatchling surface area to body mass allows for rapid dehydration that's made possible by the very thin and porous skin that allows for them to breathe through when underground. It's an adaptation that when 10" underground a whole clutch has got to dig themselves out of the hole their mother dug and laid them into 9 months before. The downside is that they're also going to lose water from that porous skin as well when exposed to dry air. When people first sold these animals, they gave instruction on their care of the hatchlings not the adults. People were generally slow to realize that adult arboreal chams have different environmental niches / requirements. That for adult animals *"misting does not work" for hydration, that it usually leaves them both stressed and suffering from prolonged dehydration that's results in many early deaths due to kidney failures or other health issues.

Water dripping... well that's also fine when it's required... and I've had to use a dripper on my wild caught animals until they can get settled and transition over to water glasses.

The problem with the above two traditional methods is that they both encourage bacterial and fungal disease... mouth rot and lung infections that have plagued keepers since that 18th century frenchman wrote that chameleons will not drink out of a bowl.

You see, by licking the chams are leaving saliva everywhere.
They're also leaving fecal droppings and smears over all the branches and plant leaves, unlike in the wild where they don't have an accumulation in their environment. Misting and water dripping allows for many common household bacteria and fungus to start using that as a food source and adapt their metabolism to best colonize and grow on it.

By forcing the animals to lick the surfaces for water... they're getting mouthfuls of these bacteria that in turn will cause disease and lung infections as they overwhelm the immune system. (one that might already be stressed out due to dehydration or from poor air quality from being kept in a glass tank so humidity can be kept to 80%)

This is above and beyond the problems for having to deal with the excess water runoff that has ruined many tables and carpets in people's homes. (lets not talk about the dyes and toxins that exist on many fancy decorative fake leaves and vines I've seem many people use in their cages being licked off and consumed)

TL;DR: Now I know that you're posting this because you care about the animals.. but you're also the recipient of a lot of bad information and are repeating that to others as gospel... when it should be examined.

I've had new animals come into my colony from other breeders and take to a properly presented water glass without any hesitation or training... This has been true for the multiple species I've worked with. with glasses they can get all the water they want... 100% hydration when they want it 100% of the time. Clean water and I haven't had a lung infection or mouth rot issue in ... many years.

 

[Highway61]

That for adult animals *"misting does not work" for hydration, that it usually leaves them both stressed and suffering from prolonged dehydration that's results in many early deaths due to kidney failures or other health issues.

Any self respecting cham keeper who believes this should just stick to keeping Beardies

 

[Syreptyon]

Like I said above, I did try to remove it but he would drink dirty water rather than off of leaves.
I know it’s not ideal, but I don’t see what other options I have. I still mist, but that water source goes ignored.
I don’t want to be ignorant or rude, but what is the problem with this water source? It’s clean (bowls changed daily), it’s up high where he can’t go to the bathroom in it, and it’s not deep enough for him to drown.

Chameleons can poop wherever they want. Up high, down low, doesn't matter.

This still water combined with the "cold IR" light makes me very concerned. Moreover, there should absolutely not be a bucket to hold dirty dripper water in there. That's asking for trouble! Put it over a plant or something.

 

[Balien]

That for adult animals *"misting does not work" for hydration, that it usually leaves them both stressed and suffering from prolonged dehydration that's results in many early deaths due to kidney failures or other health issues.

Any self respecting cham keeper who believes this should just stick to keeping Beardies

I’m not saying that everything said in that post is true, but regarding the issue of the drinking glass I do see many valid points.

I am 100% open to advice from this forum: I immediately replaced my coil uvb light with a t5ho fixture, I bought new plants on the recommendation of another member, I’m going to be working on a new drainage system this weekend as someone else pointed out that having his dripper going into an open bucket isn’t a good idea, etc.

However, the issues that I have seen people have with the water bowl are mainly that it’s dirty and that he can drown, both of which are untrue in my case

 

[Balien]

Chameleons can poop wherever they want. Up high, down low, doesn't matter.

This still water combined with the "cold IR" light makes me very concerned. Moreover, there should absolutely not be a bucket to hold dirty dripper water in there. That's asking for trouble! Put it over a plant or something.

The dripper goes over a plant, but it ended up watering it a little too much and it was dying. And bucket may be the wrong word, it’s just a big Tupperware container at the bottom of the enclosure. The dripper water still drips over leaves on its way down

May I ask what you mean by cold IR light?

 

[Syreptyon]

The dripper goes over a plant, but it ended up watering it a little too much and it was dying. And bucket may be the wrong word, it’s just a big Tupperware container at the bottom of the enclosure. The dripper water still drips over leaves on its way down

May I ask what you mean by cold IR light?

In your other thread, you were describing a cold-to-the-touch heat lamp, weren't you? Unless I got my members mixed up.

A tupperware is just as bad as a bucket. That is the very definition of stagnant water and poses a threat to your chameleon. If there is too much water, then it would be in both your best interest to make a drainage system

 

[Balien]

In your other thread, you were describing a cold-to-the-touch heat lamp, weren't you? Unless I got my members mixed up.

A tupperware is just as bad as a bucket. That is the very definition of stagnant water and poses a threat to your chameleon. If there is too much water, then it would be in both your best interest to make a drainage system

That wasn’t me, he has a normal basking lamp in addition to a 24” reptisun 5.0 light

The reason I am using the bowl in the first place is because I didn’t want him drinking from the Tupperware, I’m well aware of how contaminated that thing is

 

[Syreptyon]

That wasn’t me, he has a normal basking lamp in addition to a 24” reptisun 5.0 light

The reason I am using the bowl in the first place is because I didn’t want him drinking from the Tupperware, I’m well aware of how contaminated that thing is

Its mere presence is dangerous enough, though! The bacteria go airborne from water with ease. It is nearly as dangerous just being in there as it would be drinking it. I cannot stress this enough.

 

[Balien]

Its mere presence is dangerous enough, though! The bacteria go airborne from water with ease. It is nearly as dangerous just being in there as it would be drinking it. I cannot stress this enough.

I understand, I went ahead and took it out

 

[Lennoncham]

I’m not totally convinced he was actually trying to drink the water. I have observed my panther shooting water droplets off of vines and plants like it was a bug. I think that they see a glimmer from the light refracting and think that it is a bug moving. Total speculation though.

 

[salty dog]

Mine sometimes drink the spray right out of the air, they will open their mouth stick their tongue out a little then pull it back in and swallow....repeat..some lap water right off a leaf or branch, some will shoot their tongue at water droplets

 

[Lennoncham]

Mine sometimes drink the spray right out of the air, they will open their mouth stick their tongue out a little then pull it back in and swallow....repeat..some lap water right off a leaf or branch, some will shoot their tongue at water droplets

See that’s somewhat normal. The shooting at water droplets I’m not sure is trying to drink them. In the video @Balien posted the Cham was shooting his tongue into the bowl. That’s not a very efficient way for a Cham to get water. If he was trying to drink it why wouldn’t he tilt his head down a bit and lap it up like they do off of leaves?

 

[Daesie11]

Its mere presence is dangerous enough, though! The bacteria go airborne from water with ease. It is nearly as dangerous just being in there as it would be drinking it. I cannot stress this enough.

Ok so I'm not arguing the danger of the tub in the enclosure at all. My drainage tub is under my enclosure with holes drilled in the bottom.
My question is, if the bacteria can go airborne then how is the bucket outside the enclosure any safer than inside? In that respect. Obviously i know there are other aspects to the danger of it as well, I'm more so asking for the health of my own cham regarding the bucket of poop water under his enclosure lol