How is the last Bradypodion shipment doing?

[coldbloodedAL]

If your truly interested, and are worried about weather. You should be fine, like Paul said , EU weather is similar to ours(maybe a bit warmer than mine). I expect to be able to keep them outside from mid April-November. And MI has by far the most erratic weather compared to any place I know.

Just make sure you are able to act on rapid weather changes.

 

[JimO]

Paul is sending me a male pumilium next week and I plan to put him outside as much as I can. I am a bit concerned about it getting too hot for him in the summer. We typically get into the upper 90s for 8 to 10 weeks of the summer. I also wonder about the amount of heat put off by metal halides or HID lamps. I wonder if high output T-5 CFL lights would be sufficient. It's enough to keep some of my hard corals healthy and actually growing. I know there is not a direct comparison, but need for intense lighting is similar.

 

[showjet95]

I have kept all of my pumilum outside the entire summer here in southern California, and some weeks it gets into the low 100's where I live, I just make sure they are in shade for days like those and get plenty of mistings (the cage will dry out very quickly). Ive noticed that pumilum LOVE LOVE LOVE to bask, and like it warm or hot, I would say they are very similar in keeping to a panther. My transvaals dont like it approaching 90, not sure about my thamnobates yet, but Im sure they wont either.
I cant really go into depth about the high intensity lighting that they use because I just dont know enough about it. I can definitely ask a few keepers in Europe that I know about it though.

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Aside from the first two I lost, the rest of mine have done well under t5HO Arcadias... They really drab out the colors compared to natural sunlight though.

My new, first order of business with keeping bradypodion is to make sure air in the rooms their kept in never gets stagnant. The window is open to let fresh air in 24/7, even if its below freezing outside. My montanes all like the sharp drop at night anyway.

The light misting rule has gone out the window in my eyes. Some days they get much water compared to what I started out at. Sometimes up to 3-4 minutes a day as long as the cages are drying out.

One last thing... Since they are prone to bacterial/fungal infections, any time a FF/bean beetle culture shows any kind of mold, or gets a funky smell they don't get used for the bradys. I can't say whether or not it has any effect on them if they're fed to off, but I rather not take anymore risks than neccessary.

I don't think things are going all that bad with the previous two imports, seems much better than ones prior to.

Jared- Do you know if the person who still has the two from the first shipments has a pair? Have they produced any young?

If they are unrelated to what I have, I would pay top $ for another unrelated pair

 

[Cainschams]

I think they got both females, honestly. The first shipment of thamnobates was really male heavy. I was told I had 9.9 but I think it was more like 5.13 LOL. I can ask though.

 

[coldbloodedAL]

I think they got both females, honestly. The first shipment of thamnobates was really male heavy. I was told I had 9.9 but I think it was more like 5.13 LOL. I can ask though.

Lol.. females would be even better! I have some very eager males

 

[JimO]

I'll just need to monitor him closely and have several good spots to place his cage. We get some pretty violent thunderstorms in the summer, sometimes every afternoon. That would be one heck of a misting.

I have kept all of my pumilum outside the entire summer here in southern California, and some weeks it gets into the low 100's where I live, I just make sure they are in shade for days like those and get plenty of mistings (the cage will dry out very quickly). Ive noticed that pumilum LOVE LOVE LOVE to bask, and like it warm or hot, I would say they are very similar in keeping to a panther. My transvaals dont like it approaching 90, not sure about my thamnobates yet, but Im sure they wont either.
I cant really go into depth about the high intensity lighting that they use because I just dont know enough about it. I can definitely ask a few keepers in Europe that I know about it though.

 

[showjet95]

I'll just need to monitor him closely and have several good spots to place his cage. We get some pretty violent thunderstorms in the summer, sometimes every afternoon. That would be one heck of a misting.

That would just simulate mother nature. I dont see why that would be a problem unless the cage goes flying into someone elses backyard lol, as long as its a tropical or semi-trop thunderstorm...

 

[chameleonneeds]

Just a note to you guys about weather experiences.

Pumilum are in the south western cape. During Summer the ITCZ is south below the equator line which causes the pressure systems to move respectively so while you guys in the north have your usual winter the bradypodions will be experiencing very warm (summer) conditions with very little rain, there is very little rain because the low pressure belt with mid-lattitude cyclones are not reaching south africa. The surrounding ocean current is also cold so the humidity is also low. During winter the mid-latitude cyclones are closer to SA and the cold fronts hit the western cape directly, they will have brief moments of very hot dry weather, then rain then overcast cold weather as the cold fronts pass over delivering first the warm sector and then the cold sector of the cold fronts. That is what they experience during winter, cold and wet, no heavy thunderstorms just heavy ammounts of rain with cold days and brief moments of heat between each cold front.

Your transvaalenses are almost in the centre of the country and in the most norther province of South Africa. During winter they will experience very dry conditions with hot days and really cold nights. There is a huge lack of rain due to the kalahari high pressure descending in the atmosphere which causes an inversion layer of temperatures just above the ground, the high pressure and inversion layer block warm moist air from the east coast (with its warm current water) from coming in over onto the land. During summer the kalahari high pressure cell ascends higher into the atmosphere this allows the warm moist air from the east coast to come over the land, this increases the airs temperature and water holding capacity which means that in summer the humidity will be higher with heavy rains accompanied with thunderstorms, limpopo experiences flood risks due to the huge amount of rain it experiences.

Unfortunately I don't know too much about the weather experienced in the midlands for the thamnobates. The general climate for the province is also effected by the warm ocean current. Generally KZN is much warmer pretty much all year round. The only thing that changes the amount of rainfall is if tropical cyclones develop and get close to the land, this is what will also cause a drop in temperature. In winter the temps can still be fairly warm or cool because the warm ocean current dominates the control of the climate for that area. However the conditions specifical for thamnobates can be different depending on if they are found on certain parts of mountains or in valleys.

So you guys can see that all 3 species experience different conditions in summer and winter. It isn't 1 solid pattern that all bradypodions experience. The weather systems change dramatically from the northern parts to the southern parts and from central continental areas to coastal maritime areas of south africa.

 

[chameleonneeds]

But also, congrats to you guys that are having success with the bradypodions. They are proving to be challenging. But I can bet my money that South Africa will never allow any exports of any of its animals.

 

[JimO]

Good point. I'll make sure it's strapped down! lol

That would just simulate mother nature. I dont see why that would be a problem unless the cage goes flying into someone elses backyard lol, as long as its a tropical or semi-trop thunderstorm...

 

[JimO]

Just a note to you guys about weather experiences.

Pumilum are in the south western cape. During Summer the ITCZ is south below the equator line which causes the pressure systems to move respectively so while you guys in the north have your usual winter the bradypodions will be experiencing very warm (summer) conditions with very little rain, there is very little rain because the low pressure belt with mid-lattitude cyclones are not reaching south africa. The surrounding ocean current is also cold so the humidity is also low. During winter the mid-latitude cyclones are closer to SA and the cold fronts hit the western cape directly, they will have brief moments of very hot dry weather, then rain then overcast cold weather as the cold fronts pass over delivering first the warm sector and then the cold sector of the cold fronts. That is what they experience during winter, cold and wet, no heavy thunderstorms just heavy ammounts of rain with cold days and brief moments of heat between each cold front.

This sounds like the opposite of what we have in North Florida. Around Memorial Day we start getting hot, humid days, with muggy nights in the upper 70s to mid 80s. Often we get afternoon thunderstorms, with very heavy rains. But, it's always very humid. Of course, depending on the season, we get tropical systems moving through until October. Our dry season starts in November and lasts until March. Most cold fronts only bring light rain in the winter months and it gets very cold sometimes. We usually have several hard freezes in the winter with temps going as low as the teens at night. This year, like everyone else, we are having an extended winter. We have heavy rains this week and then clear, dry air with the lows in the 30s.

So, simulating hot, dry summers and cool wet winters will most definitely be a challenge.

 

[ChamMan7]

I think they got both females, honestly. The first shipment of thamnobates was really male heavy. I was told I had 9.9 but I think it was more like 5.13 LOL. I can ask though.

Oh my god... what i would do to be able to get a group that large...

And, ChameleonNeeds... some really great info there. Living in south Africa gives you a pretty large advantage with having success with these guys, and I also doubt South Africa will open up any time soon. Have you had a chance to watch any of theses guys in the wild down there? Thatd be everyones best bet at figuring these out, except I doubt everybody keeping Bradys would be ok with throwing the money down to take a "team" trip to South Africa to get good data lol.

 

[JimO]

I do appreciate all the great info on this thread. I hope to stay in touch with other Bradypodion keepers. I'm not taking this lightly and want to really work with pumilium (for starters) to have breeding success. I'm starting off with one of Paul's males and will get a female from the next import. Any advice is more than welcome.

 

[Olimpia]

The only advice I can add to this thread is to take good notes about everything and investigate when things go wrong. I kept logs of my B. trans on my computer and in a notebook, almost as if I were following the progress of an experiment. Things like temps, changes in behavior, long rains, odd things, etc., everything got written down. You never know when these details will help you figure out when something went right or wrong down the line.

Also, in the case of a death, I highly recommend getting a necropsy done by someone proficient at performing them. You can't spend $800 on an animal as rare as this in this country and just go "oh well" if they pass. Spend that extra money and investigate why, not just for your own knowledge but so that the others that are working with this species have a chance to learn too. You never know how relevant the death of one animal might be to the success of the others.

So those are my tid-bits of wisdom, and I definitely wish everyone that is trying/having success with these guys lots good luck!

 

[bifidus]

Oh my god... what i would do to be able to get a group that large...

You need just pay for them

 

[ChamMan7]

You need just pay for them

That my friend... is the issue

 

[chameleonneeds]

I have witnessed them in the wild. I go down to a spot in Hermanus and I've found a hot spot of pumilum there. I've seen 2 or 3 different colour forms of them down there. I kept a small female one time and she died just before giving birth..

I'm trying to find some on permits down here so I can keep them legally. I'd love to try some damaranum or dracomontanum.

Right now in SA I'm working on importing a group of panthers, I would like to get 3 different locales of 10 each about 6 females and 4 males for each, most of them need to be unrelated too. SA needs this import for pure panthers and for new bloodlines. We are lacking with different bloodlines and there's been too much inbreeding, its impossible to breed panthers here now, with every bacth of eggs only 10% of the eggs come out good and hatch, then the babies seem to take forever to grow. Really hoping to make this import happen but I need to find someone from the US or Europe that will export those chameleons to me.

 

[Turningdoc]

JimO, Im south of you in Naples. If you look at native ranges and reports from the EU, they verify Pauls observations wo problems up to 100+ degrees. At 85 here, my pumilums still snuggle right up to within a few inches of a 65w basking lamp. Gun temp 95 degrees.

 

[JimO]

Thanks. I definitely plan to keep him outdoors as much as I can. I really want to succeed with them.

JimO, Im south of you in Naples. If you look at native ranges and reports from the EU, they verify Pauls observations wo problems up to 100+ degrees. At 85 here, my pumilums still snuggle right up to within a few inches of a 65w basking lamp. Gun temp 95 degrees.