How many are too many silkworms for a Juv Parsonii?

[Twitchet]

Hi there, As some of you know I have a parsonii male- 1 year old,
I'm raising rather a few silkworms ,
They are a particular favourite of his, I know they are a super food and I love the fact I can offer him this but they are also seem full of moisture ( although I was looking at a nutritional facts guide for livefoods and moisture was the same -ish as crickets etc-or was this wrong?)
so can I do him any harm by letting him have his fill of them ,

I do also feed/raise dubia, orange head,sticks, bsf,butterworms, waxworms, pachnoda grubs, locusts and crickets.
I know the pros and cons of these and my aim always is to vary diet and gutload.
He's gone through dubia as the must have food and is now enjoying silkies, not very interested in anything other than them, butterworms ( treat) and locusts,
so if I fed 5-10 med-large silks a day would that be o.k or shall I just observe faeces to tell me if it's too wet a diet, can I upset him gut flora by too wet a food?

I also offer another food type each day , he's happy to take adult locusts along side silks but dubia and others are off at the moment.

He obviously can't live on a diet of silkies and I need to be aware that if he becomes choosy for one particular food type and move him out of worms and onto a more mixed diet.

Sorry if this is a daft question but I want to be sure before doing anything detrimental to him
Many thanks.

 

[rminnis]

Do you raise you silkys from egg? What is best to feed tiny ones! it seems the chow goes dry so quick and you need to one by one put em on new food! Also do they need heat if it falls below 75 in your house? Like at night?

 

[Remkon]

If you're feeding silkies I would clean off all

Do you raise you silkys from egg? What is best to feed tiny ones! it seems the chow goes dry so quick and you need to one by one put em on new food! Also do they need heat if it falls below 75 in your house? Like at night?

I use my chow for 2days and then refresh it even if it still looks good.
The containers i keep em in in aren't so well ventilated so chow stays moist for a while, yet it doesn't mold.
The little silkies get bundled up because of their webbing so you can flatten the chow lay em on there and the next time you can take em off like a sheet, take out the dirty parts and put them on top of a new piece of chow.

For the silkies that just hatched just feed them a little bit and add new chow next to the old part and most of em will transfer. You can also buy those silkie tweezers and transfer em with that (I only use my hands)...

I don't give my silkies extra heat...
I have em in my chameleons room so their temperatures are around 72 during the day and drop quite a bit at night. Room temp is fine during the day, a little warmer may make them eat more and grow faster... So 75 f should be fine.

Disclaimer:
I'm not an expert on silkies as i am not yet full circle and have my own offspring... Once they emerge from their cocoons, mate and lay eggs I can say I have done every part of silkworm husbandry

 

[rminnis]

Thanks for the info, Ive heard they dont need much air to breath I guess I was just too worried to put them in anything without at least a few airholes. Ive got some 2-3 day old hatchlings that im transfering basically 1 by 1 with fine tip brush daily from old to new chow because chow is hard after about 10-12 hours. Ive also heard people use a cheese grater with chow i assume the only way to do this is with dry chow which i thought was bad. Also i was worried about it getting much below 72-74 at night mostly. I just want them to get big enough for my chams to eat theyve never had em! Anyway sorry to highjack your Silkworm thread hopefully someone can help Twitchet with the first post!

 

[Remkon]

Oh yea this wat twitch's topic.

@Twitchet I've read you can use silkies as a staple so i think you can use em a lot. I would.clean off their webbing before.feeding and feed em by hand.
I don't know if the webbing cam cause problems if ingested to much.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I don't think it's possible to overfeed a growing animal, though a good rule of thumb is that no feeder comprise more than 30% of the total diet. Larval forms of insects often have higher amounts of fat, because they need an energy source for survival, while they pupate, versus roaches, which don't pupate.
I'm surprised your guy eats so much! Both of my parsons might take one adult orange head or dubia or 2 adult silkworms, but typically they eat one prey item, every couple of days, unless it's something particularly enticing, like katydids or cicadas. I used to freak out about them not eating every day, since I am used to melleri, which are absolute gluttons!
My parsonii are also WC, and will not feed from feeders, bowls, or any other means of keeping the insects contained, so I free range larger prey items, like mantises and manually place the roaches
They are jus under 200 grams and steadily going up in weight. I've had them since April and they are just starting to associate me with food and will take food from tongs, rarely my fingers, or directly from a branch, as soon as I place it, even if the item doesn't move. Before, I had to be several feet away to witness them feeding, they'd run when I was near and I'd have to painstakingly place mortally wounded, but still mobile roaches in their line of sight and back far away.
I look forward to the day I don't have to cripple roaches anymore!

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Remkon, Thanks for the advice- good to hear. I'm glad you were able to advise about silky care- that's what's so good about this forum, it leads to other questions and topics and hopefully everyone benefits.
I guess with feeding them it's about getting the balance right - when to add more food- enough to feed them but waiting until they've pretty much finished it so you aren't adding more and then the old leftovers go mouldy. It's a fine line.
Ever heard of anyone weaving/ making anything from their own cocoons? I'm not thinking silk scarf just a little thing from silk- or is that raving mad?

 

[Remkon]

I think you'd need a lot of cocoons to do that...
I may save em up once the moths have emerged (1more week to go)...
Can't wait to have produced my own eggs, I may do a detailed care sheet once I can say I'm a successful silkie breeder.

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Andrew- Thanks for the advice, Now I worry he's eating TOO much lol.
He doesn't eat every single day to be honest- I don't worry now- as I know he's eating well and over any stress but I offer food everyday and most days he's eating.
As I say he wont touch dubia at the moment but they don't fit into how he likes food presented or how the food behaves- he much prefers food left on a twig in front of him but he would eat and eat silks if i kept giving them to him.
I might try your tip with the roaches though,
He is cb but was kept out of view of people so was very shy and difficult to feed- I'd hide behind ficus plants or contort my body around the side of the viv with my arm going dead trying to hold forceps and food for him.
He still won't feed if he sees me but now I realise that depends on the quality of the food- a silk will be take with me by forceps at arms length in clear view- immediately- no hesitation- so I've got his number!
He was 69 g when I got him in June and is now 155g so I was very pleased at his progress. He's now exactly 1 year old.
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Andee]

When people weave stuff from the cocoons they boil the silk with the larvae in it. Because when the larvae break out the release a liquid to make it easier, and it ruins the silk. So you have to kill the larvae inside.

 

[Twitchet]

Damn- Not enough cocoons!
well maybe I could make a very very small scarf for a mouse perhaps. Actually I did read earlier you need something like 2000 -5000 cocoons for like 1lb of silk so maybe I'm a little ambitious. I'll make something !
Interesting fact alert!
Wiki says the cocoon is made of a thread of raw silk from 300 to about 900 m (1,000 to 3,000 ft) long.

 

[Twitchet]

That's interesting Andee- Thanks for that. I wondered how they got out- I want to keep mine for moths for the chams - they will love them but I'll sacrifice a few in the name of art.

 

[Remkon]

you can probably cut tje larvae out of the cocoon and it will still live, it just wont be protected...
Its a lot of work to achieve so little.

 

[rminnis]

Hi Remkon, Thanks for the advice- good to hear. I'm glad you were able to advise about silky care- that's what's so good about this forum, it leads to other questions and topics and hopefully everyone benefits.
I guess with feeding them it's about getting the balance right - when to add more food- enough to feed them but waiting until they've pretty much finished it so you aren't adding more and then the old leftovers go mouldy. It's a fine line.
Ever heard of anyone weaving/ making anything from their own cocoons? I'm not thinking silk scarf just a little thing from silk- or is that raving mad?

I did read about this being pretty common to do in certain areas of the world Im thinking if you plan to use the silk you have to remove it before the silky soils it! I cant remember the process.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Hi Andrew- Thanks for the advice, Now I worry he's eating TOO much lol.
He doesn't eat every single day to be honest- I don't worry now- as I know he's eating well and over any stress but I offer food everyday and most days he's eating.
As I say he wont touch dubia at the moment but they don't fit into how he likes food presented or how the food behaves- he much prefers food left on a twig in front of him but he would eat and eat silks if i kept giving them to him.
I might try your tip with the roaches though,
He is cb but was kept out of view of people so was very shy and difficult to feed- I'd hide behind ficus plants or contort my body around the side of the viv with my arm going dead trying to hold forceps and food for him.
He still won't feed if he sees me but now I realise that depends on the quality of the food- a silk will be take with me by forceps at arms length in clear view- immediately- no hesitation- so I've got his number!
He was 69 g when I got him in June and is now 155g so I was very pleased at his progress. He's now exactly 1 year old.
Thanks again for the advice.

Mine have each gained close to 90 grams, each, since April. The female had to be given Fortaz injections and both refused regular feedings and sometimes any feeding for a week to 3 weeks, for the first 6 weeks they arrived. They've been steady and consistent since the middle of June.
I can't wait to see more adult size, color, and see them develop their personalities, as they grow. They are very relaxed animals, once they settled in.

 

[Twitchet]

That would probably finish me - 6 weeks of on and off feeding. Parsnip wouldn't eat for three weeks , the day he took a dubia was amazing, I was so relieved, then after that he's done really well, the female is full grown and she ate on the day of arrival here, but he continues to change , rostral blades are getting bigger and he's getting some wonderful colours developing, his eyes are now so orange . I, too, cannot wait to see him become an adult male.
I must say its a treat having a younger animal so you can be part of watching them as they grow up.
Many thanks Andrew and bet yours look splendid romping through that amazing enclosure. Mine would like that, it's beginning to get cold here so no more days out in their outdoor enclosure.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

They won't overeat. Just make sure you get a variety into him. Gut load as much as you can.

 

[Twitchet]

Thanks Oldchamkeeper- Thanks good, He certainly has an appette when it's a food he likes.
Yes definitely trying to always give him variety,
todays gutload menu consist of blueberry powder, spirulina, hemp powder, maqui powder, bee pollen, grape leaves, alfalfa , red dandelion, plantain and grated carrot with a pinch of brewers yeast- Yummeee!
Sadly not on my silkies but you'll never see a happier locust in Sussex!

 

[Extensionofgreen]

You gutloaf has the same ingredients as mine, but I toss in even more! I can't recall what, off the top of my head, but I have a list written down. I order from nuts.com.
I recently got tired of greens, as they require immediate attention or the wilt and finding ones that weren't on their way out, twice a week was getting to be too much for all 13 roach colonies, so I put some nopali, aka opuntia pads, on auto delivery and I serve them. I supplement with greens I collect, and hope to grow some edibles, in the future, but the cactus pads and fruit are very good water sources, are high in calcium, and they keep forever!

I was a wreck, when they were up and down, those first weeks! Both ate on arrival, also, then they would trade off; first the male, then the female would strike for 2-3 weeks. I was in constant contact with jpowell88, for the duration and he helped ease my nerves. I was contacting keepers far and wide, trying to nail down the secret to getting them settled. Joel and I came to the conclusion that, being WC, they especially hated feeling enclosed and the walls of a reptarium are very visible. I thought the darker mesh would reduce visibility outside of the enclosure and make them feel more secure, but it was the opposite. They became different animals, once their current cage was completed and they were introduced. I'm planning to upgrade their 4'x8'x6'10" tall enclosure to a 4'x16'x6'10" build, this Spring/Summer, but I might get to that later, with melleri in my forecast again, and they won't need it quite yet, anyway!

 

[savage13]

Wow..my little one still not interested in silk worms, horn worms, butter worms or super mealworms..Just crickets and roaches as for gutloads I use cricket crack, Repashy bug burger I love this stuff... I have noticed when I put fresh vegetables and fruits and a some of the gutload they tend to preferred the powder stuff....