how many BSFL = BSF = dubia = 10 crickets of same size?

[44937]

In many of the resource materials and various caresheets on sponsor's websites, I routinely see the number of crickets to feed for adults/juveniles per day (IE 10-12 medium crickets/day for 3-6 month juveniles),
But what if we are feeding dubia, BSFL or BSF?
I'm looking to see if anyboy knows what the equivalent number for nutritional value of dubia, BSFL, BSF is to 10 crickets if they were the same sizes. All the sizes are the same for the feeders except the BSFL's don't get much bigger than 3/4".

 

[NickTide]

I have been told a dubia is equal to 3= 5 crickets of the same length. I have no idea how scientific that number is. For that matter it could be to justify paying 3 = 5 times the price for dubias compared to crickets but they do seem like they would weigh a good bit more.

I would imagine that a 1/2 inch bsfl would be about the same as a 1/2 inch cricket. The cricket is bulkier but the larvae is packed with nutrients. Hopefully someone can give you a more definitive answe r.

 

[Andee]

What age chameleon are you feeding? Once we understand that then we can guide you better. And honestly it depends massively what you are feeding you dubias and crickets. BSFL will never be able to economically measure up to the correct amount of food a single cricket or dubia can provide no matter the nutrition content, it doesn't fill up you chameleon. However you should still feed them because they are so healthy. Are those your only three feeders?

 

[44937]

My cham is 3 months. He's eating 1/4-3/8" BSFL, dubias and crickets. All three feeders are fed leftover tortoise food that my torts don't finish. So mostly greens and Mazuri Tortoise diet formulas 5M21 and 5E5L

Greens are mostly dandelions, grape leaves, and romaine lettuces sprayed with calcium carbonate and water solution.

Ingredients and specs for Tortoise diet 5M21 is as follows:
https://www.mazuri.com/product_pdfs/5M21.pdf
Crude protein not less than 15%, Crude fat not less than 3%, Crude fiber not more than 18%
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, wheat germ, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, mixed tocopherols (preservative, form of vitamin E; citric acid, rosemary extract), d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, calcium pantothenate, niacin, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), riboflavin, l-lysine, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin a acetate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3).

Ingredients and specs for Tortoise LS diet 5E5L is as follows:
https://www.mazuri.com/product_pdfs/5E5L.pdf
Crude protein not less than 12%, Crude fat not less than 4%, Crude fiber not more than 22%
Ground timothy hay, ground soybean hulls, dried beet pulp, oat hulls, wheat middlings, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, cane molasses, dried apple pomace, wheat germ, flaxseed, ground aspen, carrageenan, ground brown rice, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, artificial flavor, calcium carbonate, brewers dried yeast, salt, l-lysine, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate, biotin, dried yucca shidigera extract, cholecalciferol, beta carotene, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, folic acid, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, sucrose, fructose, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, nicotinic acid, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product dehydrated, Lactobacillus casei fermentation product dehydrated, Bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product dehydrated, copper sulfate, Enterococcus faecium fermentation product dehydrated, torula dried yeast, natural mixed tocopherols (a preservative), citric acid, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, rosemary extract, zinc oxide, lecithin, ferrous carbonate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.

I think the tortoise formulas make pretty good gut load for the feeders.

 

[nightanole]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/got-bored-so-weighed-some-food.96122/

 

[Mawtyplant]

maybe this can help you, just use goole translate for the feeders names
http://www.elevageslisard.com/resou..._nutritionnelles_des_insectes_nourriciers.pdf

(blattes = dubia, grillons = crickets and vers phoenix = bsfl

 

[44937]

https://dubiaroachdepot.com/guidance/dubia-roaches-vs-other-feeder-insects

Thank you all. I found this in my search through my down time and it looks very interesting for comparison. The chart is even sortable by clicking on the desired column.

 

[Lennoncham]

My cham is 3 months. He's eating 1/4-3/8" BSFL, dubias and crickets. All three feeders are fed leftover tortoise food that my torts don't finish. So mostly greens and Mazuri Tortoise diet formulas 5M21 and 5E5L

Greens are mostly dandelions, grape leaves, and romaine lettuces sprayed with calcium carbonate and water solution.

Ingredients and specs for Tortoise diet 5M21 is as follows:
https://www.mazuri.com/product_pdfs/5M21.pdf
Crude protein not less than 15%, Crude fat not less than 3%, Crude fiber not more than 18%
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, wheat germ, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, mixed tocopherols (preservative, form of vitamin E; citric acid, rosemary extract), d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, calcium pantothenate, niacin, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), riboflavin, l-lysine, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin a acetate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3).

Ingredients and specs for Tortoise LS diet 5E5L is as follows:
https://www.mazuri.com/product_pdfs/5E5L.pdf
Crude protein not less than 12%, Crude fat not less than 4%, Crude fiber not more than 22%
Ground timothy hay, ground soybean hulls, dried beet pulp, oat hulls, wheat middlings, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, cane molasses, dried apple pomace, wheat germ, flaxseed, ground aspen, carrageenan, ground brown rice, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, artificial flavor, calcium carbonate, brewers dried yeast, salt, l-lysine, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate, biotin, dried yucca shidigera extract, cholecalciferol, beta carotene, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, folic acid, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, sucrose, fructose, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12 supplement, nicotinic acid, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product dehydrated, Lactobacillus casei fermentation product dehydrated, Bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product dehydrated, copper sulfate, Enterococcus faecium fermentation product dehydrated, torula dried yeast, natural mixed tocopherols (a preservative), citric acid, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, rosemary extract, zinc oxide, lecithin, ferrous carbonate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.

I think the tortoise formulas make pretty good gut load for the feeders.

I would be concerned that the tortoise would leave some type of parasite on the food that would be picked up by the crickets and transfered to your chameleon.

 

[Andee]

That tortoise food is not a good gutload at all and ditch the romaine. I don't even recommend feeding remaine to tortoises there is no nutritional value to it. If you do a dry gutload buy from a place. Or make your own. I sell mine, also there is cricket crack, bug buffet, mixed with a higher profile food like repashy bug burger.

 

[44937]

I am open to suggestions but please let me know why you don't believe/feel the tortoise food is "not good at all". There are no meat products in the ingredients and its an all grain/vegetarian product used by mostly zookeepers for their tortoises.

Regarding my torts, I only feed romaine every 4-5 days so considering many people I know do feed it as a staple (which I do not encourage), I am OK with it. Yes I know its nutritional value is low but in totality of their overall diet, I believe its good. In the wild, not all tortoise is able to eat the most nutritional foods with every meal and often they are living with many internal parasites untreated. I believe this is where we (as pet owners) are a little on the extreme when it comes to feeding of our animals. I am not saying its not important to feed our pets well but its also important to keep the totality of their diet into consideration. I currently keep 8 Hermann (for past 5 yrs) and 3 Burmese star tortoises. My largest female Hermann's has laid 4 clutches of eggs in the past 3 years with my current feeding schedule so I know I am doing something right in spite of the fact she gets romaine lettuce every 4-5 days.