How to ask for help w tongue issue

[Chachi]

My cham is 16 months old. I have had him over a year. He is ambilobe blue bar male.
He is large. Very large for a panther. He eats roaches, crickets, horn worms and super Worms. He eats everyday, when he will and he usually eats 6 or 7 bugs a day. He has constant steam and a dripper that is dripping all day til 7. Then, I dry out the cage over night.
He has a basking lamp that is usually 85-87° and the temp in the cage is 72°.I also have athe least a 10° temp difference in the cage.
His cage is screen 2'x2'x40".
He has only live plants. I spray, too, sometimes so it's pretty wet and humid so I let it get dry over night.
I gutload his feeders w kale, turnup, collard, greens I use oranges and apples for water for the bugs. They get grains and sweet potatoes and everything that is on the list that I sent w this
Sometimes I open the cage and he runs to my hand and up my arm. I hold him if he does this.
Supplements Repashy calcium plus every day. It's the one that has a little bit of everything and you can use it everyday.
He has lazy tongue. He will crawl down into his feeders cup to avoid striking long distance. He eats and drinks real good. What's wrong

 

[kinyonga]

Any possibility he injured the tongue? Is it swollen at all?

 

[Chachi]

No, His tongue looks normal. When I hold his cup up to him, if I kind of leave it far away, he will walk over to it, brace the cup w his feet and put his head into the cup. When he hits the bug w his tongue, it is a strong hit. It goes, 'thunk' fairly loud. I have had him since he was 3 inches long."

 

[Chachi]

What do you think. Should i start w the vitamin A?

 

[kinyonga]

Why vitamin A?

 

[Chachi]

Because I read this forum religeously and several individuals think too little or too much vit A can affect his tongue. I read somewhere that you said that all the nutrients work in concert (not a quote) but it may be vit A or mbd.
Kinyonga, I have 10. lights that were purchased in Jan., lights on both sides of his cage. I use Repashy products. I almost never feed them w/o dusting. He is HUGE, weighing almost a lb. He eats like a pig, explores his cage all day. Basks every morning yet this guy will walk clean across his cage to get his food rather than use his tongue. He will eat anything and everything live I give him. Sometimes I think if it wasnt so traumatic, Im so dang frustrated Im gonna go get a blood test on everybody.

 

[kinyonga]

How long has he had lazy tongue?

 

[jamest0o0]

I can't say for sure but I had the same concern with my younger panther. He went through a period of not using his tongue, missing bugs, and going up close. I was worried, but continued supplementing as usual and kept up on everything. He went back to using his tongue normally. I'm no expert, but I'd give it some time. The tongue is a muscle that can strain, is prone to bites, soreness, etc. Keep a close eye obvioualy.

 

[kinyonga]

Tongue issues can be the result of an injury, a nutrient imbalance, an infection, etc

It seems like nutrient imbalance is the most common reason...and in most cases (as far as I know) it's a calcium/D3 issue.
Regarding nutrients...there needs to be a balance between phosphorous, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin D3...and likely more.
MBD can affect the tongue because calcium plays a part in bone health and muscle contractions.
What the insects are fed/gutloaded with can also play a part as can temperatures.
I'm sure you know this already though from your comments.

Maybe these will help regarding understanding some of the nutrients that can be involved...
Calcium and vitamin D3 article by Dr. Lopez...
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm
Vitamin A...antagonistic actions...
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
M. Wheelock...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html

I wish I could give you a definite answer/solution.

 

[bobcochran]

Can you post a picture of him? Maybe he's obese and lazy. Hunger is a great motivator. I don't feed my adult male panthers 7 days a week.

 

[kinyonga]

This is interesting...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/repashy-calcium-plus-tongue-issues.139007/

 

[Chachi]

Can you post a picture of him? Maybe he's obese and lazy. Hunger is a great motivator. I don't feed my adult male panthers 7 days .This guy stands at his feeding place and glares at me if I dont feed him. But I wont feed him if he isnt at his spot since he has been a year old. I have my girls on an eat til you arent hungry kind of diet to keep the egg bearing at a minimum and a decent length of life. I could put him on a diet if either of you thought it nec. I hope its not but you are right, he could be fat and lazy, dang it. He looks so healthy to me.

 

[Chachi]

How long has he had lazy tongue?

It doesnt take much to scare me. Im throwing it all out. What do you use?

 

[Chachi]

Can you post a picture of him? Maybe he's obese and lazy. Hunger is a great motivator. I don't feed my adult male panthers 7 days a week.

Bob, please read the article re Repashy that Kinyonga sent above

 

[kinyonga]

For many years I've used Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium powder and Rep-cal phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder and Herptivite.
For years I've fed/gutloaded the crickets, superworms, etc with a wide assortment of greens and veggies and a bit of fruit...such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, squash, zucchini, carrot, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, berries, pears, apples, melon, etc.

I'm sure there are other things that work too.

 

[Chachi]

Your gutload looks like mine except i cant find escarole. I go to the health food store 1 get this bee pollen-like stuff. I use apples oranges and other fruits for a water source. Everything else is exactly the same. Do you make a 'salad' or put it in whole?
Also, Bob didnt say anything yet, but does Houdini look fat to you? His poop is perfect w urates white-white. He

 

[bobcochran]

I shouldn't have said obese, I should have said overweight. I don't think your male looks too fat, but I still think it's a good idea to miss a couple of days a week of feeding mature adult males. Not in a row, but maybe a Monday and a Thursday. I read the Repashy article. Interestly Ed Kammer swears by it, and he raises and sells a lot of Panthers!
Tongue issues are difficult to diagnose, so many factors are in play. Sometimes it's as simple as dehydration, all the way to an irreparable tongue injury.
I use the same supplements as kinyonga, simply because I haven't had any problems with them. I do use the Repashy low D 2-3 times a month though.

 

[kinyonga]

I make a salad of the greens and veggies, etc. It's the same mix I fed to my tortoises, prehensile tailed anole, water dragons, beardies...so it was easiest to just make a whole container of "salad" and put an appropriate sized hand full in each cage.

 

[Chachi]

I shouldn't have said obese, I should have said overweight. I don't think your male looks too fat, but I still think it's a good idea to miss a couple of days a week of feeding mature adult males. Not in a row, but maybe a Monday and a Thursday. I read the Repashy article. Interestly Ed Kammer swears by it, and he raises and sells a lot of Panthers!
Tongue issues are difficult to diagnose, so many factors are in play. Sometimes it's as simple as dehydration, all the way to an irreparable tongue injury.
I use the same supplements as kinyonga, simply because I haven't had any problems with them. I do use the Repashy low D 2-3 times a month though.

Ok. I will head your advice and cut out a couple of feedings. I eas doing it for me anyway. To make me feel like I had made sure he was doing well. Thank you.

 

[Chachi]

I make a salad of the greens and veggies, etc. It's the same mix I fed to my tortoises, prehensile tailed anole, water dragons, beardies...so it was easiest to just make a whole container of "salad" and put an appropriate sized hand full in each cage.

I feed my bugs the same things i feed my tortoise, so. Im sure i. Good. Thanks for the help.