Will Hayward
New Member
Nah, stick with the 5.5 for another month.
how to feed baby veiled
- Thread starter titan501x
- Start date
ChameleonsTree
New Member
what is their website and what city do they live in?
titan501x
New Member
titan501x...since you already have the chameleon, try to give her the best chance you can to survive and grow. Although there is a mortality rate for such young ones, there is still a good chance that it will do okay.
Provide it with UVB light. The light should not pass through glass or plastic.
Make sure the cage temperature is appropriate (80 to 85F) at the hottest part and cooler in other areas. Just remember that a baby cools, warms and dehydrates quicker than an adult so you want to keep its temperatures more moderate and mist the cage frequently. Proper temperatures are important to digestion.
Feed it gutloaded pinhead crickets and fruitflies. Dust the crickets with a phosphorous-free calcium powder frequently. I dust with vitamins twice a month. If the vitamin A source in them is beta carotene, it will not build up in the system, but if its preformed, it will...so be careful. I also dust with a calcium/D3 powder twice a month because my chameleons only get artificial UVB. D3 can build up in the system too....so don't overdo it.
When misting such a young chameleon, be sure that the water doesn't pool into large drops because there have been cases of aspiration (water going into the lungs) when that happens.
Good luck...I hope that despite its young age, it will do well with you!
Provide it with UVB light. The light should not pass through glass or plastic.
Make sure the cage temperature is appropriate (80 to 85F) at the hottest part and cooler in other areas. Just remember that a baby cools, warms and dehydrates quicker than an adult so you want to keep its temperatures more moderate and mist the cage frequently. Proper temperatures are important to digestion.
Feed it gutloaded pinhead crickets and fruitflies. Dust the crickets with a phosphorous-free calcium powder frequently. I dust with vitamins twice a month. If the vitamin A source in them is beta carotene, it will not build up in the system, but if its preformed, it will...so be careful. I also dust with a calcium/D3 powder twice a month because my chameleons only get artificial UVB. D3 can build up in the system too....so don't overdo it.
When misting such a young chameleon, be sure that the water doesn't pool into large drops because there have been cases of aspiration (water going into the lungs) when that happens.
Good luck...I hope that despite its young age, it will do well with you!
titan501x
New Member
Right now i don't have access to a uvb light, would putting the cage in front of a window and letting sunlight do any good?
CammieNLeno
New Member
Since this lady has such horrible business ethics, perhaps she will ship a vieled to me in hawaii!! no qustions asked! haha!
titan501x
New Member
Since this lady has such horrible business ethics, perhaps she will ship a vieled to me in hawaii!! no qustions asked! haha!
thats quite a stretch from michigan
titan501x
New Member
Crap, that sucks
Scrappy
New Member
I said "slim" for inexperienced owners. I witnessed this myself at the MARS show....vendors selling very, very tiny chams probably in the age range of a few weeks to maybe 2 months. There are experienced collectors that go to these shows but there are also impulse buyers. I saw so many babies going out knowing they were probably doomed due to inexperience of the buyer. Many people do not do their homework before purchasing (I am guilty of that myself with my first cham), but I quickly learned and did everything possible after educating myself. Not everyone does that. My statement wasn't meant to offend or put anyone down, I'm simply stating that the survival rate for a baby that small is slim for an inexperienced keeper.
UVB is very important. Without UVB or some source of vitamin D3, the chameleon can not use the calcium that is being provided in its diet....so the body can not get enough calcium and the bone health will be compromised. The chameleon will get MBD.
Even though the following site talks about panthers being raised with no UVB and D3 supplements, I would still advise that you get a UVB light as does the person in the interview. (The UVB must not pass through glass or plastic..as I already mentioned and was mentioned about the sunlight too.)
http://www.chameleonnews.com/interviewfer.html
"Larry Talent at Oklahoma State University successfully raised multiple generations of panther chameleons by giving his animals carefully measured doses of vitamin D3 with no UVB and I have no doubt that other breeders have figured out effective doses with veiled and other chameleon species. Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact dose that Talent used and I haven't tried this approach extensively myself. Unless a novice has direct advice from an experienced breeder about the exact source and dose of vitamin D to use in the absence of UVB, I strongly recommend the use of one of the commercially available UVB-generating bulbs and low or no dietary vitamin D."
Although this article concerns bearded dragons, it illustrates the difference UVB can make....
http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-55-page-1.html
"the ONLY difference between their care with us, and that with their previous keepers, was that we offered them lots of UVB lighting".
"Conclusion: No doubt with us, UVB is necessary for bearded dragons to thrive as best they can, although they may survive without it and only supplements with D3, all eight of these dragons prove that UVB exposure, along with other good husbandry gives them the best opportunity to thrive and grow to the size and health they should be."
Good hydration, proper temperatures, gutloading the insects properly, supplementing properly, exposure to UVB/sunlight are all important in the chameleon's health. Not getting those things right will almost certainly lead to health issues and early death of your chameleon.
Even though the following site talks about panthers being raised with no UVB and D3 supplements, I would still advise that you get a UVB light as does the person in the interview. (The UVB must not pass through glass or plastic..as I already mentioned and was mentioned about the sunlight too.)
http://www.chameleonnews.com/interviewfer.html
"Larry Talent at Oklahoma State University successfully raised multiple generations of panther chameleons by giving his animals carefully measured doses of vitamin D3 with no UVB and I have no doubt that other breeders have figured out effective doses with veiled and other chameleon species. Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact dose that Talent used and I haven't tried this approach extensively myself. Unless a novice has direct advice from an experienced breeder about the exact source and dose of vitamin D to use in the absence of UVB, I strongly recommend the use of one of the commercially available UVB-generating bulbs and low or no dietary vitamin D."
Although this article concerns bearded dragons, it illustrates the difference UVB can make....
http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-55-page-1.html
"the ONLY difference between their care with us, and that with their previous keepers, was that we offered them lots of UVB lighting".
"Conclusion: No doubt with us, UVB is necessary for bearded dragons to thrive as best they can, although they may survive without it and only supplements with D3, all eight of these dragons prove that UVB exposure, along with other good husbandry gives them the best opportunity to thrive and grow to the size and health they should be."
Good hydration, proper temperatures, gutloading the insects properly, supplementing properly, exposure to UVB/sunlight are all important in the chameleon's health. Not getting those things right will almost certainly lead to health issues and early death of your chameleon.
titan501x
New Member
i will try to get a uvb lamp as soon as possible, it could be a few weeks though.
ChameleonsTree
New Member
You dont have a few weeks...you need it yesterday
titan501x
New Member
did u read this? Cuz i know i need a uvb light, i just don't have access to one right now.
Zerah Morris
New Member
Before we go MBD crazy here lets stop for a minute.
First veiled chameleons are more often than not traded at 1-3 weeks of age from breeder to retailer. They are very hardy and with a bit of basic husbandry do fine. I am not saying selling 2 week old chameleons of any species to novice keepers should be a regular practice but this is the buyers responsibility as well as the breeders. I am quite certain that there were CB veileds of older age available at the same show, but for what ever reason we choose a very young specimen. So now it needs care.
For many years hobbyist raised chameleons with good success without the availability of artificial UVB generating bulbs. The sun is the best alternative if you cannot get to a UVB bulb quickly. Even in colder climates an hour or so on a near daily basis exposed to sun and the use of the D3 supplemented powder will likely provide you with a good chance of success. In addition "full spectrum" plant bulbs are available at most stores very cheaply, and MAY help some.
Why are we all so gloom and doom around here? Do your best to get the animal some sun. Use the D3 supplement you have until you can get a higher quality supplement. Throw every scrap of raw veggie you have from daily meal prep to your crickets and look for a quality commercial gut-load as budget allows. If you are only feeding FF look in to making your own media with quality ingredients. Water the heck out of the little cham. Clean his cage thoroughly every other day with a dilute bleach solution. As soon as you can budget a UVB bulb get one. Do not worry so much, it is a 20$ learning experience.
Many chameleons have been provided good lives by diligent hobbyist doing the best they could with what they had. Get creative.
This is a useless statement without explanation. Why do we criticize without educating? Use what you have, but yes buy better when you can. Gut loading is more important.
First veiled chameleons are more often than not traded at 1-3 weeks of age from breeder to retailer. They are very hardy and with a bit of basic husbandry do fine. I am not saying selling 2 week old chameleons of any species to novice keepers should be a regular practice but this is the buyers responsibility as well as the breeders. I am quite certain that there were CB veileds of older age available at the same show, but for what ever reason we choose a very young specimen. So now it needs care.
For many years hobbyist raised chameleons with good success without the availability of artificial UVB generating bulbs. The sun is the best alternative if you cannot get to a UVB bulb quickly. Even in colder climates an hour or so on a near daily basis exposed to sun and the use of the D3 supplemented powder will likely provide you with a good chance of success. In addition "full spectrum" plant bulbs are available at most stores very cheaply, and MAY help some.
Why are we all so gloom and doom around here? Do your best to get the animal some sun. Use the D3 supplement you have until you can get a higher quality supplement. Throw every scrap of raw veggie you have from daily meal prep to your crickets and look for a quality commercial gut-load as budget allows. If you are only feeding FF look in to making your own media with quality ingredients. Water the heck out of the little cham. Clean his cage thoroughly every other day with a dilute bleach solution. As soon as you can budget a UVB bulb get one. Do not worry so much, it is a 20$ learning experience.
Many chameleons have been provided good lives by diligent hobbyist doing the best they could with what they had. Get creative.
This is a useless statement without explanation. Why do we criticize without educating? Use what you have, but yes buy better when you can. Gut loading is more important.
titan501x
New Member
Thank you, its about time somebody sticks up for the newb here.
I just switched to feeding pinhead crickets to her last night, i will be running to the pet store today, i can get some better dusting stuff, i have a dripper set up and i mist everyday, twice a day, i can do more misting if needed. I was using fruit flies, but they weren't big enough for her. i do have a dart frog i feed fruit flies to and i culture my own fruit flies using specail media, crickets are gut loaded with carrots and anything else i can find before feeding. Crickets are dusted everyday before feeding, i have a built a screen cage for my chameleon that should provide much needed ventalation. Heat lamp sitting on top, it is a 50 watt bulb and it keeps the basking areas 80-90 degrees, and lower in the tank the tempature is about 70-80, and at night the tempature drops to low 70's, i will be getting a night bulb soon for her.
How am i doing?
Jordan
New Member
I would not worry about night time temperatures. It is benefical for a drop.
As other members have said I would recommend a light that produces Uvb as soon as you can get one. A couple of notes when out shopping for one. There are a couple ways to get Uvb. The one I would recommend for a beginners and the one I use my self is threw flourescent lighting. When shopping you will be looking for a rating. The numbers you will see are 5.0,8.0, or 10.0. These numbers stand for the percentage of Uvb that they produce 5%,8%, or 10%. With a veiled the minimum would be a bulb that produces at least 5%, you can go bigger if you want to. With specific brands alot of owners would recommend a Repti-Sun. These have been proven to penetrate deeper into the enclosure. You can do some shopping at say like Home Depot, Lowe's...etc for the fixtures that you will mount these in. Ones that are for like a garage or ceiling hanging fixtures tend to run you more. If you look around in the same section you will usually find some plastic ones that are geared towards kitchen uses like mounting under the cabinets. These are cheapier and for what they are going to be used for more then adequate. I would do some double checking to make sure that the size you are looking has someone that makes a bulb in that size. For a first time purchaser you may find something like the ESU "slim line" appealing as it already has the fixture and Uvb bulb that produces 7%. This is fine make sure that you remove the plastic that covers the bulb before using. They use to have an actual sticker on the fixture that told people this but I am not sure if they still do. For the sake of saving some money and the speed that these guys grow at you may find that buying one that is bigger then the cage they are in now is not a bad idea. Yeah I guess it may look tacky but screw it, let that sucker hang. The common recommendation for an adult veiled would be a 24"x24"x48" cage, if you got a fixture with the overall length of 24" it would have an 18" bulb and be good all the way up to adult with out having to buy another fixture. Now the flourescent lighting will have to be changed every six months. These products decay and produce less and less Uvb with time. A couple of places on the internet sell these in bulk to save some money. You may chose this method if you really get into this hobby. When setting the bulbs up in the cage you want the basking bulb and this light to be as close as possible and the chameleon to get as close as possible to both (without getting burned). In the wild they would be getting both of these in one place so they should to the same in captivity. You really want them to have several appealing branches within 12" or so under the flourescent bulb.
As other members have said I would recommend a light that produces Uvb as soon as you can get one. A couple of notes when out shopping for one. There are a couple ways to get Uvb. The one I would recommend for a beginners and the one I use my self is threw flourescent lighting. When shopping you will be looking for a rating. The numbers you will see are 5.0,8.0, or 10.0. These numbers stand for the percentage of Uvb that they produce 5%,8%, or 10%. With a veiled the minimum would be a bulb that produces at least 5%, you can go bigger if you want to. With specific brands alot of owners would recommend a Repti-Sun. These have been proven to penetrate deeper into the enclosure. You can do some shopping at say like Home Depot, Lowe's...etc for the fixtures that you will mount these in. Ones that are for like a garage or ceiling hanging fixtures tend to run you more. If you look around in the same section you will usually find some plastic ones that are geared towards kitchen uses like mounting under the cabinets. These are cheapier and for what they are going to be used for more then adequate. I would do some double checking to make sure that the size you are looking has someone that makes a bulb in that size. For a first time purchaser you may find something like the ESU "slim line" appealing as it already has the fixture and Uvb bulb that produces 7%. This is fine make sure that you remove the plastic that covers the bulb before using. They use to have an actual sticker on the fixture that told people this but I am not sure if they still do. For the sake of saving some money and the speed that these guys grow at you may find that buying one that is bigger then the cage they are in now is not a bad idea. Yeah I guess it may look tacky but screw it, let that sucker hang. The common recommendation for an adult veiled would be a 24"x24"x48" cage, if you got a fixture with the overall length of 24" it would have an 18" bulb and be good all the way up to adult with out having to buy another fixture. Now the flourescent lighting will have to be changed every six months. These products decay and produce less and less Uvb with time. A couple of places on the internet sell these in bulk to save some money. You may chose this method if you really get into this hobby. When setting the bulbs up in the cage you want the basking bulb and this light to be as close as possible and the chameleon to get as close as possible to both (without getting burned). In the wild they would be getting both of these in one place so they should to the same in captivity. You really want them to have several appealing branches within 12" or so under the flourescent bulb.
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