How to prevent Egg-Boundness?

[PardonMyPardalis]

Wassup Cham Fam, been dealing with this issue for a while and need some expert advice. How can we prevent female chameleons from becoming eggbound and how can we make them comfortable to lay eggs when they are refusing to lay?

 

[Sonny13]

That's an excellent question, however the easiest and shortest answer is, if your husbandry is spot on and you keep the strict feeding and temperature regime then that's for 99% your answer. Then that 1% still shows errors of which are unknown. IMHO the first time is the most important one, if the first time for them your husbandry is spot on, and she has her laybin in there before, our during, her receptive phase and she gets her privacy, she'll eventually know what to do and once she has done it, the following time will go even easier. The problem sits within our interfering and that in combination with something wrong within the husbandry (this can be lots of things).

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

That's an excellent question, however the easiest and shortest answer is, if your husbandry is spot on and you keep the strict feeding and temperature regime then that's for 99% your answer. Then that 1% still shows errors of which are unknown. IMHO the first time is the most important one, if the first time for them your husbandry is spot on, and she has her laybin in there before, our during, her receptive phase and she gets her privacy, she'll eventually know what to do and once she has done it, the following time will go even easier. The problem sits within our interfering and that in combination with something wrong within the husbandry (this can be lots of things).

Could you elaborate on the temperature regimen? More heat equals more eggs?

 

[Sonny13]

Exactly, higher temps accelerates their metabolism, resulting in producing more eggs. And this goes in direct correlation with the (in)correct food intake, supplementation, UVB and gut loaded feeders.

I'm no long time expert btw and this is what I have been reading so far. Only experienced with 2 females, a Veiled who laid 4 times so far and a Panther how laid once.

Hopefully, some experts chime in later.

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

Exactly, higher temps accelerates their metabolism, resulting in producing more eggs. And this goes in direct correlation with the (in)correct food intake, supplementation, UVB and gut loaded feeders.

I'm no long time expert btw and this is what I have been reading so far. Only experienced with 2 females, a Veiled who laid 4 times so far and a Panther how laid once.

Hopefully, some experts chime in later.

I appreciate the info

 

[JacksJill]

Somethings that contribute to egg binding; obesity, dehydration, low calcium levels because calcium powers muscle contraction and vitamin imbalance as it can interfere with calcium use within the body.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."how can we make them comfortable to lay eggs when they are refusing to lay?"...do you have one now that's refusing to lay or are you just wanting to be prepared?

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO, the diet and temperature control need to start to some degree BEFORE the female becomes receptive the first time...but at the same time, you don't want to stunt her growth. You also need to have the nutrients in a proper balance ...and feed/gutloading the insects properly as well as dusting with the appropriate nutrients without overdoing them, providing the proper UVB is important for this.

There are two main things that can happen if we don't have the husbandry right...the chameleon can develop follicular stasis and/or eggbinding.

Follicular stasis occurs when the ovary starts growing follicles in irder to produce eggs. Under normal circumstances the follicles develop and then ovulate into the oviduct to be formed into eggs...but when follicular stasis occurs, they don't ovulate and continue on to become eggs.

Dystocia or eggbinding occurs when there are eggs produced but for some reason can't be laid. There are a few reasons why his can happen.

Over-feeding a female will make her fatter than she should be and stimulate more follicles to grow than should grow. This seems to result in follicular stasis. There is still a lot that is not known about it. There are studies going on to learn more right now. Most of the cases of follicular stasis seem to also include MBD, possible prolapses, etc as well.

If they do manage not to develop follicular stasis, the obesity can be part of the problem with them not being able to lay the eggs. The fat in their abdomen area may prevent the eggs from being a able to pass out if the female....or a nutrient imbalance may mean they don't have enough calcium for the muscles to push the eggs out...etc. We don't have all the answers yet. The studies being done now also are looking at dystocia.

What we do know is that the proper husbandry along with the "diet" and temperature control can prevent the stasis and dystocia in most cases. There are still things like physical,deformities, etc that are contributing to some cases.

IMHO, good husbandry gives our chameleons the best chance of being healthy...the "diet" makes their bodies "think" it's a lean year so they should produce less eggs because they'll have less bpnutrients available and the temperature control IMHO, slows their metabolism slows mthey wont feel so hungry.

A lot of this is just my opinion mostly ...although I have stopped reproduction in veiled females completely or at least kept the egg number around 2 dozen if I didn't want to stop it completely...and almost all my females lived to be over 6 easily...and many over 7 years.

I hope this helps!

 

[Sonny13]

IMHO, the diet and temperature control need to start to some degree BEFORE the female becomes receptive the first time...but at the same time, you don't want to stunt her growth. You also need to have the nutrients in a proper balance ...and feed/gutloading the insects properly as well as dusting with the appropriate nutrients without overdoing them, providing the proper UVB is important for this.

There are two main things that can happen if we don't have the husbandry right...the chameleon can develop follicular stasis and/or eggbinding.

Follicular stasis occurs when the ovary starts growing follicles in irder to produce eggs. Under normal circumstances the follicles develop and then ovulate into the oviduct to be formed into eggs...but when follicular stasis occurs, they don't ovulate and continue on to become eggs.

Dystocia or eggbinding occurs when there are eggs produced but for some reason can't be laid. There are a few reasons why his can happen.

Over-feeding a female will make her fatter than she should be and stimulate more follicles to grow than should grow. This seems to result in follicular stasis. There is still a lot that is not known about it. There are studies going on to learn more right now. Most of the cases of follicular stasis seem to also include MBD, possible prolapses, etc as well.

If they do manage not to develop follicular stasis, the obesity can be part of the problem with them not being able to lay the eggs. The fat in their abdomen area may prevent the eggs from being a able to pass out if the female....or a nutrient imbalance may mean they don't have enough calcium for the muscles to push the eggs out...etc. We don't have all the answers yet. The studies being done now also are looking at dystocia.

What we do know is that the proper husbandry along with the "diet" and temperature control can prevent the stasis and dystocia in most cases. There are still things like physical,deformities, etc that are contributing to some cases.

IMHO, good husbandry gives our chameleons the best chance of being healthy...the "diet" makes their bodies "think" it's a lean year so they should produce less eggs because they'll have less bpnutrients available and the temperature control IMHO, slows their metabolism slows mthey wont feel so hungry.

A lot of this is just my opinion mostly ...although I have stopped reproduction in veiled females completely or at least kept the egg number around 2 dozen if I didn't want to stop it completely...and almost all my females lived to be over 6 easily...and many over 7 years.

I hope this helps!

Yesss,

how I love it when the experts go into details, thanks you’re the best

 

[kinyonga]

Yesss,

how I love it when the experts go into details, thanks you’re the best

I hate going into all the details...I have to make my brain work/organize my thoughts,etc... but I know it's a good thing to do.
I always worry that I will miss things for one thing.

Thanks for the vote of conficdence...but I'm still no expert...there's a lot left to learn!

 

[Sonny13]

I hate going into all the details...I have to make my brain work/organize my thoughts,etc... but I know it's a good thing to do.
I always worry that I will miss things for one thing.

Thanks for the vote of conficdence...but I'm still no expert...there's a lot left to learn!

For most of us you’re, so don’t be shy
We need to learn from the “experts” / experienced ones…….and we’ll constantly need to learn

 

[Flick boy]

Hi have you thought about getting your girl spayed?

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

You said..."how can we make them comfortable to lay eggs when they are refusing to lay?"...do you have one now that's refusing to lay or are you just wanting to be prepared?

No i had a female veiled die from retaining eggs a while ago just curious. I don’t want a single female to go through that again

 

[kinyonga]

I hope this one won't have the same problem as your last one. It will depend mostly on the care you have been giving her since you've had her. If you've been over feeding her and keeping her temperatures too high, then she could very well be producing a large clutch and could very easily have issues.

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

I hope this one won't have the same problem as your last one. It will depend mostly on the care you have been giving her since you've had her. If you've been over feeding her and keeping her temperatures too high, then she could very well be producing a large clutch and could very easily have issues.

Update its been around 30 days since the pairing and she died today. No sypmtons were shown of being sick. She was not skinny, still eating, and was active. She has laid eggs 3 times and always laid in her potted plant. Difference this time is i have a new plant but is way more bushy and better all around then the other plant i had so i highly doubt it was a factor, but maybe who knows. She also had a lay bin in her cage incase she did not like the plant . She was fine yesterday she was digging around but never laid. I removed the eggs from her and they seem healthy. Do i remove them from the casing they are in connected to eachother or just let that casing degrade by itself?

 

[kinyonga]

So sorry to hear that you lost her. It's never easy losing one.

Sorry to ask these questions now but it might help if you get another chameleon in the future. You don't have to answer them if you don't want to get another or if you just don't want to answer. How many eggs did she lay the other times she laid eggs? How many did you find inside her this time?
How much were you feeding her in a week? What was the basking temperature in the cage?

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

So sorry to hear that you lost her. It's never easy losing one.

Sorry to ask these questions now but it might help if you get another chameleon in the future. You don't have to answer them if you don't want to get another or if you just don't want to answer. How many eggs did she lay the other times she laid eggs? How many did you find inside her this time?
How much were you feeding her in a week? What was the basking temperature in the cage?

The other clutches were roughly 30 eggs and i think this one was around 20. I restricted her diet to eating a few large crickets every other day and 2 supers once a week. Basking is at 85

 

[Sonny13]

Update its been around 30 days since the pairing and she died today. No sypmtons were shown of being sick. She was not skinny, still eating, and was active. She has laid eggs 3 times and always laid in her potted plant. Difference this time is i have a new plant but is way more bushy and better all around then the other plant i had so i highly doubt it was a factor, but maybe who knows. She also had a lay bin in her cage incase she did not like the plant . She was fine yesterday she was digging around but never laid. I removed the eggs from her and they seem healthy. Do i remove them from the casing they are in connected to eachother or just let that casing degrade by itself?

I´m really sorry for your lost! I´ve had almost the same with my panther a few weeks ago, with the only exception she laid her eggs and she suddenly died, without any indicators, 10 days after she laid her eggs.

 

[PardonMyPardalis]

I´m really sorry for your lost! I´ve had almost the same with my panther a few weeks ago, with the only exception she laid her eggs and she suddenly died, without any indicators, 10 days after she laid her eggs.

Man im sorry it definitely sucks but its real frustrating not being able to pin point what is going on. I will continue to research this

 

[Sonny13]

Man im sorry it definitely sucks but its real frustrating not being able to pin point what is going on. I will continue to research this

100% true!! For me it stays a massive question mark!