How's my setup?

[Clintaceous]

I've been working hard to get this enclosure up and running the past week or 2, but its finally complete! I just need to seal up the cage a bit better, as the fog seems to escape too easily and doesn't build up. I'm going to be playing with that today.

Anyway, originally I wanted to make a homemade enclosure, but decided against it and just got a reptibreeze. I think I'll make one though as a winter project. Gives me something to do on the real cold days (should be colder than normal with La Niña here).

At the top of the cage I have a heat lamp with an Arcadia dimmable Halogen, 75 watt, Arcadia 6% uvb bulb on a cheap fixture from Amazon (forget the brand) and 2 39 watt Arcadia Lumize LED bars.

For plants I have:
Peperomia 'Amigo'
Mandevilla
Varigated Ficus pumila
Neon Pothos
Heartleaf philo
Schefflera
Ficus benjamina
Neoregelia 'Zoe' & 'Wild Tiger'
Tillandsia scaposa
Tillandsia lonantha 'Rubra'
Boston Fern
Maranta 'Lemon Lime'
Hibiscus
Northern Maidenhair Fern

Humidity gets to 99% at night, with it dropping to about 65-70% before the fogger & mister kicks on. The fog only lingers at the bottom, and quickly vacates the cage. I plan on sealing it better today, in hopes that the fog can at least climb higher in the cage before dissipating.

As for temps, basking is 27-31C (80.5 - 88F) depending on room temp. I had it set to 28C (82.5F) when my house was at 18C which is what the thermostat is set to. Temps vary so much due to me renting a trailer home, and despite the landlord saying its well insulated, I think he's wrong. The cool end of the cage is about 1-2C higher than room temp. So its 18C in the room, its 19-20C in the cage, and so on.

In the future, he'll be getting siding so that only the front has a view to the interior. I also plan on building a fogger, and buying a solarmeter.

One finally thing, anyone know his locale? I'm thinking either Nosy Be or Ambanja. The dark stripes are only present during the day, and is either army green or aquamarine. At night the dark stripes disappear, and turns gray/white with hints of yellow & baby blue visible. Its really weird!

Well, how'd I do? Here are some photos

 

[Beman]

Do you have all Screen panels covered?

 

[Clintaceous]

The back, sides, front door, and the bottom panel are sealed up.

There is about a 1" strip of exposed screen on the bottom panel at the top, and the top is still screen only.

 

[Clintaceous]

I should also mention my goal a bit more specifically:

I want the fog to build up to near the top, and have the fogger run for 4-5 hrs. Then about an hour or 2 before lights on, turn the fogger off. As soon as it turns off, I want the fog to dissipate almost immediately. This will allow the cage to dry out, and also signify that there is adequate ventilation.

I actually had this happen until I added more plants, which is weird because I would have thought all the leaves would have spread out the fog more evenly, along with adding more humidity.

 

[Beman]

Ok so I am going to give honest feedback. Please do not take offense I just see some stuff that stands out as risky. With you being a newer keeper I would hate to see you have a bad experience with your chameleon. So take what you want from my feedback and do as you will with it.

I would be concerned with having an enclosure this sealed up 27/7. You will be risking issues with stagnant air and bacteria growth in the cage because so much of your screen is closed off and there is very little air circulation. Fog falls so the problem you will have is any spot at the bottom that it will flow out it will do so. So by binding the cage up not only do you loose airflow but next day it will be much harder for the cage to fully dry out allowing for the humidity levels to fall.

Additionally, which does not get talked about enough with the fogging advice out there is that you can actually over hydrate a chameleon as well. Also there is a higher risk of RI associated with this method if the conditions and how it is being done are not done correctly. Everyone is trying to push it and achieve 100% humidity all night. This just is not needed and can cause risk and be over done. If your temps are lower at night with a high humidity like this then you are at an even higher risk for RI developing. And you have to have air movement to not have stagnant air.

I am not sure how you are measuring your temps or your basking temp but 88 is a bit too high. Your looking for a range of 80-85 for a male. Keep in mind 85 is the very high end. Most of us keep ours around 80-82 at basking. Chameleons seem to be doing much better and living longer being at a lower basking temp then those that were previously advised.

You will get higher humidity pockets the more plants you add. This is a very natural way to add gradients to your cage without saturating a cage with moisture. Depending on where your humidity gauges are you will get very different results due to the gradients. Additionally the closer to the lights it will be much lower than farther down in the cage. You did not mention what you were getting for daytime humidity but you want a range of 40-50% and no higher during the day with lights on.

 

[Clintaceous]

Ok so I am going to give honest feedback. Please do not take offense I just see some stuff that stands out as risky.

Haha no I get it. That's why I posted this here, to get feedback! I don't take offense to it, I'm sure you all see the same mistakes again & again.

I would be concerned with having an enclosure this sealed up 27/7. You will be risking issues with stagnant air and bacteria growth in the cage because so much of your screen is closed off and there is very little air circulation. Fog falls so the problem you will have is any spot at the bottom that it will flow out it will do so. So by binding the cage up not only do you loose airflow but next day it will be much harder for the cage to fully dry out allowing for the humidity levels to fall.

So as you can imagine, I sealed the cage up to retain humidity & a bit of heat. Right now where I live in Canada, its a stark contrast from last year with weather. Before it was very hot & dry, now its cool & and there seems to be a bit more moisture. Humidity is around 50-60% during the day in the house. So I added the window insulation to keep humidity near 100% at night. I'd imagine in winter with the heater on, the humidity will be closer to 30-40% at best.

As for the fog, I want to replicate there natural environment as well as possible. I heard its quite humid all the time in Madagascar, and that the fog gets quite thick. That's why I wanted it to build up in the cage. I actually went around the cage and realized that it wasn't building up the way I wanted it to because some of the wrapping had detached from the cage. After placing it back, the fog can fill up again. The seal still isn't perfect though, as some parts of it won't attach to the tape or the wrapping wasn't cut properly and now there's an opening.

With that all said, I think I'm going to try a new strategy here. A quick mist at night when the cage is cooled, and then fog for 4 hours, then thats it. I'll be sure to quit the fog well before lights come on to allow it to dissipate.

I do appreciate your concern about hydration, fogging & humidity. Before replying I did some reading around the forums about it. I think I'll implement my new strategy tonight to get the cage to dry out, and keep an eye on urates. If they are all white, I'll open the cage up a bit more & watch the humidity to see if I should scale back misting/fogging.

Everyone is trying to push it and achieve 100% humidity all night. This just is not needed and can cause risk and be over done. If your temps are lower at night with a high humidity like this then you are at an even higher risk for RI developing. And you have to have air movement to not have stagnant air.

Is there a certain humidity at night I should be targeting? Would a fan on top of the cage blowing OUT air help?

I am not sure how you are measuring your temps or your basking temp but 88 is a bit too high. Your looking for a range of 80-85 for a male. Keep in mind 85 is the very high end. Most of us keep ours around 80-82 at basking. Chameleons seem to be doing much better and living longer being at a lower basking temp then those that were previously advised.

85 is considered the high end now? Ok good to know. I figured it was the middle ground, with a few degrees swing up or down being fine. I'm using a probe directly underneath the heat bulb. I made sure it wasn't touching anything to get a better idea of air temps. Its not perfect, but it gives me an idea.

I also keep the humidity gauge out in the open, towards the front & protected by a bromeliad. That way it doesn't get water splashed on it & can measure the drier part of the cage.

 

[Beman]

So I would add a small pc fan to sit on top of the cage. I use mine so it pulls air up and out of my hybrid cage. I happen to run mine 24/7 others only run theirs during the day. Again this is one of those how you have your cage set up and your ambient conditions will determine which you find more helpful.

Yeah 85 is the max end now that is being recommended. So if at the branch it is 85 then where they rise up would put them in much warmer temps. If you run at the branch about 81 then where they rise up will still sit below that 85. Again it is a range and you determine how to implement it.

For the humidity. If you could figure out how to cover the bottom service door at night only and then open it up completely during the day this is going to help with your daytime humidity and drying out the cage. I find mixing misting with fogging at night helps. Typically if you mist prior to fog you are going to get a temp drop as well. Play with your schedule and what you are doing. Try to change only one thing at a time. When you change multiple things it is hard to determine which thing actually made the difference you need. Eventually you will get to where your cage runs itself. And you can count on what you are providing to be correct. Might involve seasonal tweaks. I have hit that with my set up and the only edits I make is longer mistings in summer. I need it to counteract my lower ambient humidity and running a window unit air conditioner.

The recommended humidity your looking for at night is a high of 80-100%. Even if you are hitting 70%-80% you are getting what you need. Note sometimes you can get better results by altering your inlets for fog. Running a PVC tube with say three outlets, I used T and L parts for this. Then your flow comes out in multiple areas giving a more overall raise in humidity in the cage vs flowing down one side where it will inevitably find a way out of the cage. If you have hard wood floors check for moisture build up as well. I had an issue with this at my last house.

 

[Clintaceous]

Went ahead and lowered the basking spot to around 81-82F (~27.5C) so I don't overheat him.

So I thought about what you wrote, as well as listened to some podcasts & read some more forum posts. Sounds like the big things with captive care are air flow, and ensuring a higher nightime humidity with a dryer daytime humidity so as to allow the cage surfaces to dry & prevent the growth of mold, bacteria, etc. Am I correct in this assumption? Obviously there is more to chameleon care than this, but doing these two things should reduce the chance of RI yeah?

With that said, I have removed the plastic film on the bottom front panel to halfway to allow greater airflow. Last night I chopped it down to halfway, changed my 3 mistings in the night to last 3 minutes instead of 1, and made it so my last misting ended 2 hrs before the lights came on. This morning I noticed the cage all around was drier, but still had some wet surfaces to allow the chameleon to drink. And he did.

I've left the fogging to just 3 hrs in the night, as this overhydration thing kinda scares me. I feel he has better control of his hydration by physically drinking, whereas fogging just seems to be 'uncontrolled' as they drink by simply breathing! I still think fogging is important from what I've been reading and listening to podcasts, but I'll keep an eye on urates before I make changes to fogging/misting. As well, the fog builds up in the cage to where its just noticeable, but dissipates when the fogger shuts off just like I wanted! I may do what you did with using a pipe to spread the fog more evenly, but the plants I added seem to be doing a good job at doing that.

I'll definitely have to think of ways to alter the cage as seasons change, because that seems to be the case for me too. Looking at the climate for where I live, the average humidity is 60% or so in June, then slowly tapers off into fall. This seems to be holding true so far. So in the summer I can & should offer more ventilation, but would probably have to close the cage a bit more in winter.

We'll see how it goes but I'll be looking to at least have only the bottom door open in winter and have the whole front open during summer. I'll also be looking into a small usb fan on top of the cage.

 

[Beman]

Went ahead and lowered the basking spot to around 81-82F (~27.5C) so I don't overheat him.

So I thought about what you wrote, as well as listened to some podcasts & read some more forum posts. Sounds like the big things with captive care are air flow, and ensuring a higher nightime humidity with a dryer daytime humidity so as to allow the cage surfaces to dry & prevent the growth of mold, bacteria, etc. Am I correct in this assumption? Obviously there is more to chameleon care than this, but doing these two things should reduce the chance of RI yeah?

With that said, I have removed the plastic film on the bottom front panel to halfway to allow greater airflow. Last night I chopped it down to halfway, changed my 3 mistings in the night to last 3 minutes instead of 1, and made it so my last misting ended 2 hrs before the lights came on. This morning I noticed the cage all around was drier, but still had some wet surfaces to allow the chameleon to drink. And he did.

I've left the fogging to just 3 hrs in the night, as this overhydration thing kinda scares me. I feel he has better control of his hydration by physically drinking, whereas fogging just seems to be 'uncontrolled' as they drink by simply breathing! I still think fogging is important from what I've been reading and listening to podcasts, but I'll keep an eye on urates before I make changes to fogging/misting. As well, the fog builds up in the cage to where its just noticeable, but dissipates when the fogger shuts off just like I wanted! I may do what you did with using a pipe to spread the fog more evenly, but the plants I added seem to be doing a good job at doing that.

I'll definitely have to think of ways to alter the cage as seasons change, because that seems to be the case for me too. Looking at the climate for where I live, the average humidity is 60% or so in June, then slowly tapers off into fall. This seems to be holding true so far. So in the summer I can & should offer more ventilation, but would probably have to close the cage a bit more in winter.

We'll see how it goes but I'll be looking to at least have only the bottom door open in winter and have the whole front open during summer. I'll also be looking into a small usb fan on top of the cage.

Yes, bingo and exactly. So hydration is a very big topic in keeping chams. Without proper hydration so many things can go wrong... Including RI, renal failure, gout, and well an early death. So this is one aspect that is very important. It is the how to of it all which people a lot of times will not understand that your natural humidity and room environmental conditions will change how long you fog or if you even fog. So it is taking this great concept and applying it correctly. Cool conditions and most importantly they need the air flow. You are very thorough I can tell by the way you explain your thought process. I think you will find the perfect combo of it all because you think inside the box but outside as well.

I dealt with over hydration. I was newer to the hobby and still trying to apply everything correctly. But when I was doing it there was just the advice of fog at night in cold conditions and no one explained how this really varies if you deal with very high natural humidity you may need to reduce your fogging time at night by quite a bit. So what you will see is urates that have no form to them. It basically to me looked like egg whites. And all three of my males were dealing with this. This is over hydration. So again too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. So I actually stopped fogging then. Within a week they had perfectly formed but soft white urates.

I mist pretty heavily now and I can achieve what I want to achieve in my well established Hybrid enclosure with lots of live plants. Beman is 6 years old and has never had an RI or any indication of dehydration. So my sharing really is just for you to take all the info you get and fit it to your set up and conditions. Find the right mix of it all while still following the safety aspects.

I think you will do very well though in this hobby.