liquidsweetness
New Member
Even if you are not of voting age, you can still contact your state reps and express your opinions. they have no way of knowing your age unless you tell them
HR 669 - Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act
- Thread starter liquidsweetness
- Start date
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
Oh, I now - the CFL thing is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that some people use them FOR the heat...
This mentality is not uncommon. Here is an interesting fact: Most zoos and zoo executives believe non-domesticated animals should only be kept BY accredited zoos. The Ashboro zoo, in NC, has pushed to ban exotics in the state. I believe their power is so great, that in the county the zoo is in, there are multiple exotic bans.
The head of the zoo is firmly set in his beilief that exotics, reptiles in particular, should not be allowed in private hands/collections/homes.
Where does education come from? Interest! I learned about biology through my interests - reptiles, dinosaurs, etc. I studied it in college - it was whay I went to NCSU and not some other crappy school...(UNC)
How are we to enrich children's minds if we stifle their curiosity and exploratory desires!!?!?
Kids see somethign that interests them, and they will learn on their own. When kids learn on their own, it's so much more effective than if some tenured, union teach-bot taught them! The best teachers know this - that's why they're so effective - they teach kids to teach themselves. They get kids interested in things. When the kids are interested, you can't STOP them from learning.
I have a big problem with crap like this. anything that makes it harder for people to learn about something annoyes me. the fact that this happens to be my hobby makes it a lot worse.
This mentality is not uncommon. Here is an interesting fact: Most zoos and zoo executives believe non-domesticated animals should only be kept BY accredited zoos. The Ashboro zoo, in NC, has pushed to ban exotics in the state. I believe their power is so great, that in the county the zoo is in, there are multiple exotic bans.
The head of the zoo is firmly set in his beilief that exotics, reptiles in particular, should not be allowed in private hands/collections/homes.
Where does education come from? Interest! I learned about biology through my interests - reptiles, dinosaurs, etc. I studied it in college - it was whay I went to NCSU and not some other crappy school...(UNC)
How are we to enrich children's minds if we stifle their curiosity and exploratory desires!!?!?
Kids see somethign that interests them, and they will learn on their own. When kids learn on their own, it's so much more effective than if some tenured, union teach-bot taught them! The best teachers know this - that's why they're so effective - they teach kids to teach themselves. They get kids interested in things. When the kids are interested, you can't STOP them from learning.
I have a big problem with crap like this. anything that makes it harder for people to learn about something annoyes me. the fact that this happens to be my hobby makes it a lot worse.
PardalisGirl
Avid Member
Bill update site....
You can follow what exactly is going on with this bill at the link below. It was in the Natural Resources committee and has been referred to a subcommittee on Oceans and Wildlife. The sponsor is the chairperson of that committee. Eight more representatives have signed on to it to make a total of 21 sponsors and co-sponsors.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.669:
This is the version at the Library of Congress. You can send this link to your local news and radio stations for them to research on their own. Tell them to Google H.R. 669 (for the 111th Congress) and see how much anger and concern it is stirring up all over the internet. Send it to any national news or radio shows you listen to as well. It clearly shows in the detail that there are very few things on the approved list. You need to point out all of the commonly kept things this would ban (all birds, reptiles, hamsters, gerbils, ferrets, amphibians, etc.). Spread this link and your will to fight this to as many people as you can.
This is the link to the House of Representatives:
http://www.house.gov/
You can find your representative there and get contact information for them. You do not have to be of voting age to contact them and express your views. In fact, any of you that have children should contact your school teachers. Many of them have these potentially banned things as pets in the classroom. Letters from school age children in their own words with drawings sent to your particular representative would be very effective. If the teacher won't help with this get your own kids and their friends to write letters and draw pictures of their pets.
Don't assume this is going to fail on it's own. We are just lucky that it was not hidden in that massive stimulus bill like some other things were. One of the most important issues of our lives was decided for us in that bill. How many Americans know that the authority and system to ration all healthcare in the USA (government or privately insured) was hidden in that bill? Passage of that stimulus package gave the government control over deciding what care could be given to any patient based on diagnosis, cost of treatment, age and life expectancy with treatment. It provides for penalties and fines against any healthcare provider who does not participate in this system. In other words, if you are of retirement age and get cancer....don't expect a lot of treatment to save or extend your life. It's not cost effective. The costs of providing everyone with heathcare will come at the expense of the elderly and anyone with a poor prognosis (like Pancreatic cancer patients). If you think I'm kidding Google the words "stimulus bill healthcare rationing". You may find yourself getting very upset and very worried about getting old. If the government can decide whether you get life saving or life extending medical treatments why can't they decide that you have no right to buy or breed a chameleon?
You can follow what exactly is going on with this bill at the link below. It was in the Natural Resources committee and has been referred to a subcommittee on Oceans and Wildlife. The sponsor is the chairperson of that committee. Eight more representatives have signed on to it to make a total of 21 sponsors and co-sponsors.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.669:
This is the version at the Library of Congress. You can send this link to your local news and radio stations for them to research on their own. Tell them to Google H.R. 669 (for the 111th Congress) and see how much anger and concern it is stirring up all over the internet. Send it to any national news or radio shows you listen to as well. It clearly shows in the detail that there are very few things on the approved list. You need to point out all of the commonly kept things this would ban (all birds, reptiles, hamsters, gerbils, ferrets, amphibians, etc.). Spread this link and your will to fight this to as many people as you can.
This is the link to the House of Representatives:
http://www.house.gov/
You can find your representative there and get contact information for them. You do not have to be of voting age to contact them and express your views. In fact, any of you that have children should contact your school teachers. Many of them have these potentially banned things as pets in the classroom. Letters from school age children in their own words with drawings sent to your particular representative would be very effective. If the teacher won't help with this get your own kids and their friends to write letters and draw pictures of their pets.
Don't assume this is going to fail on it's own. We are just lucky that it was not hidden in that massive stimulus bill like some other things were. One of the most important issues of our lives was decided for us in that bill. How many Americans know that the authority and system to ration all healthcare in the USA (government or privately insured) was hidden in that bill? Passage of that stimulus package gave the government control over deciding what care could be given to any patient based on diagnosis, cost of treatment, age and life expectancy with treatment. It provides for penalties and fines against any healthcare provider who does not participate in this system. In other words, if you are of retirement age and get cancer....don't expect a lot of treatment to save or extend your life. It's not cost effective. The costs of providing everyone with heathcare will come at the expense of the elderly and anyone with a poor prognosis (like Pancreatic cancer patients). If you think I'm kidding Google the words "stimulus bill healthcare rationing". You may find yourself getting very upset and very worried about getting old. If the government can decide whether you get life saving or life extending medical treatments why can't they decide that you have no right to buy or breed a chameleon?
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CleaTheChameleon
New Member
i called the congress! GO ON WWW.NOHR669.COM
Orin
New Member
All feeder sources would be illegal. The bill includes all invertebrates and none of our feeders are species originally native to the USA (naturalized species are included as nonnative).
I also thought I read that animals acquired before the bill is debated/passed would be safe from execution...
I cannot see this bill passing... it would kill (pardon the unintentional pun) several industries in an already terrible economy.
P.S. US protectorate or not, Guam SHOULD NOT have a say in anything that goes on here on the mainland!!! That would be like Alaska trying to say they had a problem with tropical fish!
I cannot see this bill passing... it would kill (pardon the unintentional pun) several industries in an already terrible economy.
P.S. US protectorate or not, Guam SHOULD NOT have a say in anything that goes on here on the mainland!!! That would be like Alaska trying to say they had a problem with tropical fish!
Syn
Avid Member
This information is useful. I'm passing flyers around town sometime this week, the more information I have, the better off.
ToniandGizmo
New Member
I can see it now....
Fast forward to the future....
I'm sitting in my chair staring lovingly at my beautiful panther, watching him going about his busy little life. Suddenly....
I hear the words "Federal Agents", "Open this door". I can't get there in time. They break my door down and scores of Feds (with guns drawn of course), are spilling into my house.
They throw me down and I'm handcuffed. Of course, all of this is caught on film and will be seen on the next "Cops" episode.
My charge? Loving a beautiful little creature whose impact on his immediate environment would (I'm sure), be slim to none.
This is making me sick.
Fast forward to the future....
I'm sitting in my chair staring lovingly at my beautiful panther, watching him going about his busy little life. Suddenly....
I hear the words "Federal Agents", "Open this door". I can't get there in time. They break my door down and scores of Feds (with guns drawn of course), are spilling into my house.
They throw me down and I'm handcuffed. Of course, all of this is caught on film and will be seen on the next "Cops" episode.
My charge? Loving a beautiful little creature whose impact on his immediate environment would (I'm sure), be slim to none.
This is making me sick.
jojackson
New Member
Are you serious? I think thats rather Understating it! But anyway....
He is correct, Anything inbound is Destroyed with extreme prejudice immediately as a threat to bio security (disease/invasion) Anything non native discovered is likewise treated. There are never extenuating circumstances either (e.g captive bred exotics makes no difference).
Any native found along with exotics gets the same treatment.
The only sanity is that outward bound wc natives (not found in company of exotics) are examined in quarantine then distributed by ballot to licensees, Since release to wild is not an option (upsets local populations/risk disease etc).
America IMHO has had it too easy for too long and screaming headlines like 'Huge Alligator eating pythons in the everglades" have finally brought US herpers Undone!
Australia points to the mess In the US when herpers lobby for change.
Sad but true. Does anyone have an educated knowledge of native (US) species being harmed/ threatened facing extinction due to invasive exotic species (on mainland North America)? Statistically there must be some? Do American Herpers want a Unified national Reptile law?
jojackson
New Member
Welcome To my world! Excepting that every reptile in my care would be siezed and destroyed and my license revoked aswell as the above! No half measures here!
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
jojackson
New Member
I hear you loud and clear, and I agree, The global 'cat lobby' is a monster that wont easily be stopped.
However, you hear reptile folk complain about the 'damage already done' with cats, cane toads, invasive fish,birds, flora etc, They say 'But...', yet you dont hear the same people voicing workable solutions to The reptile issue, this is what annoys me.
None of us reptile keepers anywhere will disagree with there being so much more to the story, but few can agree whats fair to do about it! Outright bans on trade both national/international are not the answer, there are too many variables, But the reptile Hobby is Huge In America, and the Impact is obvious.
If anyone can challenge Government to wake up to the big picture, Its millions of reptile Keepers backed by the scientific/Herpetological community with a workable plan, both in terms of biosecurity and economy. Where is the 'thinktank'?
Here atleast, the people responsible for making such descisions know nothing about reptiles, science/biology, they are politicians looking for appeasment votes!
There is no sound backing, from either side, just finger pointing at past mistakes,(their side) and 'what about the cats' type thinking.(our side)
This bill your facing was enevitable I think, Reptile Lover numbers must be catching up to the cat/bird/fish people globally no?
jojackson
New Member
Thats Pretty much the same anywhere, cats are not, nor ever were a suitable pet, no matter how 'domesticated'. Amazing creatures in their own right, but not good pets.
Cats belong in africa/india in the natural state, domestic cats dont belong anywhere!
But this has nothing to do with the Reptile Trade, The damage from cats is vast, But not an excuse to allow 'anything goes' with other species, Reptile or not.
'Its not fair because...', never got anyone anywhere! I thought FLA. move to require fees and microchips for large pythons and monitors was atleast a step in the right direction, but people still whinged! That was better than saying, you cant have them, period!
Cats belong in africa/india in the natural state, domestic cats dont belong anywhere!
But this has nothing to do with the Reptile Trade, The damage from cats is vast, But not an excuse to allow 'anything goes' with other species, Reptile or not.
'Its not fair because...', never got anyone anywhere! I thought FLA. move to require fees and microchips for large pythons and monitors was atleast a step in the right direction, but people still whinged! That was better than saying, you cant have them, period!
wheresstimpy
New Member
i would rather have a full snake than a hungry cat... lol
jojackson
New Member
LOL, me too! Funny as that is (to us) it dosent help our cause as Herpers, just gives the cat lobby ammunition they dont need!
I wouldve thought animals like venomous exotics (no antivenom) lions, tigers, bears, rage filled chimpanzees next door would be more of a concern than somebodys non venomous snake or chameleon etc.
Only in America!
I wouldve thought animals like venomous exotics (no antivenom) lions, tigers, bears, rage filled chimpanzees next door would be more of a concern than somebodys non venomous snake or chameleon etc.
Only in America!
chameleon97
New Member
A little off topic but...
how come this thread had about 25ish pages... now it has 8??
how come this thread had about 25ish pages... now it has 8??
kenya
Avid Member
Cats are very harmful to the environment and basically any other species around, but what you said here is an overstatement. People are crazy for cats and there aren't really any other animals like them. They are highly domesticated and have been made over thousands of years to be with people. That being said, they belong inside. If they are to be let out, it should be on a harness and leash. If I had a cat, it would be just that- an indoor cat with access to outside via leash. This is better for the cat as well as native species; outside is a very dangerous place to be and it is proven that indoor kittys lead much longer and more comfortable lives than their outdoor counterparts.
Vegas Chad
Avid Member
dondeb562
New Member
Does anyone know the Sen rep for Cal to contact on this issue. Iwas just reading that even if this goes through you will not be able to seek vet care or supplies for the illegal animals anymore!! I know it may be on here somewhere but if someone can repost info on who to contact I would appreciate it!!!
