Husbandry Review- I'm new to this

[sebastianzhall]

I'm new to owning reptiles, so I figured what's the best way to get information than to do a butt-load of research on them online? Tell me what I can improve upon, wise ones.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled cham, male, a year and 3 or 4 months. He's been in my care for a little over a year.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I try to handle him as little as possible, but my father (who I was previously living with) has a hard time keeping his hands to himself. I think he would take him out every other day or so, but I have only handled him a couple of times since moving (1 week ago) to shower him.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Mostly we stick to crickets because it's what he's most interested in, but recently I've been gutloading with mustard greens, carrots and mango. I also feed him mustard greens, dandelion greens, carrots and mango. I feed him every other day, about 4 or 5 crickets.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Every few feedings I dust the crickets in Rep-Cal Phosphorus free calcium with D3.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I have a Little Dripper drip system, but additionally I mist him 5+ times daily by hand. I also hand-water him with the spray bottle 3-4 times daily. (The water is treated with Zoo Med reptisafe water conditioner.)

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Slightly dry, but I'm working on re-hydrating. White urates. He has not been tested for parasites.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I got him from PetCo. When moving I left him in the care of my father, and since then he has been acting strangely. He cared for him for about 1 month.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Zoo Med screen vivarium, 16Lx16Dx30H

Lighting - What brand,model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Lucky Herp tropical t5 5.0 15 watt. roughly 12 hours on and 12 hours off.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)?
85f at the top/near basking spot and about 76f at the cage floor. He stays around 78-85 degrees in the day.

Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
About 63 degrees overnight. I use a thermometer gun to measure temperature.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I'm working on getting a hygrometer, but I try to keep it around 50%-60% humidity.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Currently he has 2 asparagus ferns at the bottom of his enclosure, but I'm about to get him some hibiscus plants (those are his favorite) and some ivy. (live plant recommendations are welcome) He also has one fake plant secured to the front of the screen to provide him with a place to hide.

Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
There is one large ceiling fan in the room, but the room he's in is relatively low traffic. It's about 52 inches from the top of the vivarium to the floor.

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Oklahoma, USA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
His colors seem to be darker than usual, and he's sleeping a lot during the day which he never used to do before. I'm slightly concerned he's dehydrated, so I'm watering him more often and spraying him more and I've been giving him showers. I have also seen him grabbing at his front legs with his back legs, and his mouth seems to sit open slightly. He's not very interested in his food, and he's been increasingly lethargic. I'm worried my father may have neglected him slightly for the month he cared for him, and I'm worried he's not doing so well. What can I do to care for him better? Is it possible he could have developed MBD? I just moved out of my parent's house and I don't have the money for a vet right now. He also used to be very aggressive when trying to feed/handle him, but he hasn't hissed a me once. He's acting very out of character. What do i do????

 

[sebastianzhall]

Sort of an update: His mouth is no longer sitting open, but he's still sleeping and I'm afraid to stress him out by poking him/shaking the cage to wake him. They don't usually sleep in the day, do they???

 

[Beman]

Sort of an update: His mouth is no longer sitting open, but he's still sleeping and I'm afraid to stress him out by poking him/shaking the cage to wake him. They don't usually sleep in the day, do they???

No this is not normal... When last did you replace the UVB bulb? It is a linear T5HO fixture correct?

Can you post pics of the entire enclosure and the chameleon. Typically something like this we recommend a Vet visit to an experienced reptile vet.
There are things incorrect in husbandry as well such as supplementation but it will take me a little bit to go through your form.

 

[sebastianzhall]

No this is not normal... When last did you replace the UVB bulb? It is a linear T5HO fixture correct?

Can you post pics of the entire enclosure and the chameleon. Typically something like this we recommend a Vet visit to an experienced reptile vet.
There are things incorrect in husbandry as well such as supplementation but it will take me a little bit to go through your form.

Yes, that's correct, it's a linear T5HO fixture. I last replaced the UVB right before I left him in my father's care. I will try to get photos but I'm currently without a phone.

 

[Beman]

@sebastianzhall see my feedback and questions in Red bold.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled cham, male, a year and 3 or 4 months. He's been in my care for a little over a year.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
I try to handle him as little as possible, but my father (who I was previously living with) has a hard time keeping his hands to himself. I think he would take him out every other day or so, but I have only handled him a couple of times since moving (1 week ago) to shower him.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Mostly we stick to crickets because it's what he's most interested in, but recently I've been gutloading with mustard greens, carrots and mango. I also feed him mustard greens, dandelion greens, carrots and mango. I feed him every other day, about 4 or 5 crickets. It is not recommended to feed chameleons greens and fruits. Use these to gutload only.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Every few feedings I dust the crickets in Rep-Cal Phosphorus free calcium with D3. He should be getting Calcium without D3 and Phosphorus at every feeding except 2 times a month when you supplement Calcium WITH D3 and 2 times a month when you use a multivitamin. You can Buy Reptivite WITH D3 and this would be both the multivitamin and the calcium with D3 and give it ONLY 2 times a month say the 1st and 15th of the month. You can do this one instead of buying the calcium with D3 and the multivitamin separately.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I have a Little Dripper drip system, but additionally I mist him 5+ times daily by hand. I also hand-water him with the spray bottle 3-4 times daily. (The water is treated with Zoo Med reptisafe water conditioner.)

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Slightly dry, but I'm working on re-hydrating. White urates. He has not been tested for parasites. If the urates are white he is hydrated.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I got him from PetCo. When moving I left him in the care of my father, and since then he has been acting strangely. He cared for him for about 1 month. Do you think your father stopped caring for him during that period?

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Zoo Med screen vivarium, 16Lx16Dx30H This is too small for a Male Veiled. Should be a 2x2x4 minimum.

Lighting - What brand,model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Lucky Herp tropical t5 5.0 15 watt. roughly 12 hours on and 12 hours off. Are you certain this is a T5... It should say on the bulb. I just googled Lucky herp and could only find T8's and compact bulbs. Typically recommended for Veileds to ensure they get the correct UVB levels are T5HO fixtures with a 5.0 UVB bulb. Then basking would sit at 9 inches below to provide the correct UVI level with this fixture.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)?
85f at the top/near basking spot and about 76f at the cage floor. He stays around 78-85 degrees in the day. What are you using for heat lamp?

Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
About 63 degrees overnight. I use a thermometer gun to measure temperature.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I'm working on getting a hygrometer, but I try to keep it around 50%-60% humidity. Daytime levels should be 30-50% max. At night when lights are off it can be up to 100%.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Currently he has 2 asparagus ferns at the bottom of his enclosure, but I'm about to get him some hibiscus plants (those are his favorite) and some ivy. (live plant recommendations are welcome) He also has one fake plant secured to the front of the screen to provide him with a place to hide. Make sure your not getting ivy... It is harmful to them. Here is a good link for safe Veiled tested plants. Any chance he has been eating the fake plant? https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf

Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
There is one large ceiling fan in the room, but the room he's in is relatively low traffic. It's about 52 inches from the top of the vivarium to the floor.

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Oklahoma, USA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
His colors seem to be darker than usual, and he's sleeping a lot during the day which he never used to do before. I'm slightly concerned he's dehydrated, so I'm watering him more often and spraying him more and I've been giving him showers. I have also seen him grabbing at his front legs with his back legs, and his mouth seems to sit open slightly. He's not very interested in his food, and he's been increasingly lethargic. I'm worried my father may have neglected him slightly for the month he cared for him, and I'm worried he's not doing so well. What can I do to care for him better? Is it possible he could have developed MBD? I just moved out of my parent's house and I don't have the money for a vet right now. He also used to be very aggressive when trying to feed/handle him, but he hasn't hissed a me once. He's acting very out of character. What do i do????
By showers... How are you doing this? It can be more stressful then helpful. Typically the best way to do this is with room temp water bouncing off the side wall of the shower and the cham on a plant sitting in the shower. So it is not directly being sprayed.
Grabbing at the legs is concerning... This is a sign of MBD. Which brings me back to wondering if it is in fact a T5 UVB fixture.
Supplementation is off which can contribute to health issues as well.

Here are some links for accurate husbandry info as well
https://chameleonacademy.com/

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

 

[sebastianzhall]

@sebastianzhall see my feedback and questions in Red bold.

Answers in green

It is not recommended to feed chameleons greens and fruits. Use these to gutload only. Copy that, I will only use greens and fruits to gutload from now on.

He should be getting Calcium without D3 and Phosphorus at every feeding except 2 times a month when you supplement Calcium WITH D3 and 2 times a month when you use a multivitamin. You can Buy Reptivite WITH D3 and this would be both the multivitamin and the calcium with D3 and give it ONLY 2 times a month say the 1st and 15th of the month. You can do this one instead of buying the calcium with D3 and the multivitamin separately. Great, I just ordered the reptivive with d3.

If the urates are white he is hydrated.

Do you think your father stopped caring for him during that period? I don't believe he stopped caring for him, but I don't think he properly cared for him either. He often would forget to feed/supplement him.

Cage Info:
Cage Type- 16Lx16Dx30H vivarium This is too small for a Male Veiled. Should be a 2x2x4 minimum. I will start looking for upgrades as soon as possible.

Are you certain this is a T5... It should say on the bulb. I just googled Lucky herp and could only find T8's and compact bulbs. Typically recommended for Veileds to ensure they get the correct UVB levels are T5HO fixtures with a 5.0 UVB bulb. Then basking would sit at 9 inches below to provide the correct UVI level with this fixture. I very clearly remember ordering a T5 Tropical 5.0 UVB, and I'm pretty positive the packaging said T5, but when I look for the same bulb only T8 comes up. His basking area is just at 9 inches below the bulb.

What are you using for heat lamp? I was using Zoo Med's Basking Spot Heat Lamp, but I have to replace the bulb. He's only been without for a couple of days. Do you recommend any certain lamp/bulb for basking?

Daytime levels should be 30-50% max. At night when lights are off it can be up to 100%.

Make sure your not getting ivy... It is harmful to them. Here is a good link for safe Veiled tested plants. Any chance he has been eating the fake plant? https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf Thank you, and no, there's no bites out of the fake plant, and I don't see him around it often.

By showers... How are you doing this? It can be more stressful then helpful. Typically the best way to do this is with room temp water bouncing off the side wall of the shower and the cham on a plant sitting in the shower. So it is not directly being sprayed.
Grabbing at the legs is concerning... This is a sign of MBD. Which brings me back to wondering if it is in fact a T5 UVB fixture.
Supplementation is off which can contribute to health issues as well.
That's exactly how I've been showering him. I put him on his fake plant and he loves it. They're only 10-15 minutes but every time I've showered him and put him back he goes bright green, so I think that's a good thing>

Here are some links for accurate husbandry info as well
https://chameleonacademy.com/

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

Thank you, I will thoroughly read through these and consider everything we talked about. Thank you again for your help, and I will look into getting him to the vet as soon as financially possible for me.

 

[NashansCamos]

can we see some photos of him and his enclosure?

 

[NashansCamos]

It is very possible that your father didn't give him any supplements - which is bad - but he also couldve given him TOO MUCH supplements - which is also bad. this is just a possibility there is tons of things that could make him act like this.

 

[Beman]

@sebastianzhall
I very clearly remember ordering a T5 Tropical 5.0 UVB, and I'm pretty positive the packaging said T5, but when I look for the same bulb only T8 comes up. His basking area is just at 9 inches below the bulb. So Take a look at the bulb. The bulbs should have on it what it is... A T8 bulb is bigger then a T5. T5 bulbs are like the size in diameter of a finger. Not large at all. If it is a T8 then this is the issue. Because with a T8 5.0 bulb their basking has to sit only 5 inches down to get the right levels. So that their body rises up into the correct UVI level of a 3. Where he is sitting at nine inches down he would barely be gettin a 1 UVI if that even. I believe you may very well have a T8 and he is having issues with improper UVB levels for D3 conversion. Take that with the improper supplementation it makes sense to me.

Depending on your temps where you live... If you can take him in his cage outside and let him get some UVB from sun this could help him. BUT it can not be hot temps. Looking for mid 60-70's max and you need to stay out there with him. If he starts gaping it is too warm for him. Get him out for an hour if possible. But watch him closely Hot weather is very very dangerous for chams. It can kill them. This is why I am saying only when your temps allow for it. With him already being compromised I would not want exposure to high temps at all. And 70's in the sun can feel more like 90's so you have to be careful with this.

What are you using for heat lamp? I was using Zoo Med's Basking Spot Heat Lamp, but I have to replace the bulb. He's only been without for a couple of days. Do you recommend any certain lamp/bulb for basking? Use a regular household bulb that is an incandescent bulb. Just make sure it is not an LED type. A 60 watt should be fine.

 

[sebastianzhall]

can we see some photos of him and his enclosure?

@NashansCamos @Beman

These are kind of old as I have no way of obtaining new photos, but here's Montague and his enclosure a few weeks ago. The third image is the most recent. (I have since moved his basking spot down after buying a new UVB, I had it higher to accommodate the lower temperatures of the old bulb, as recommended from a friend who handles reptiles.)

 

[Beman]

@NashansCamos @Beman

These are kind of old as I have no way of obtaining new photos, but here's Montague and his enclosure a few weeks ago. The third image is the most recent. (I have since moved his basking spot down after buying a new UVB, I had it higher to accommodate the lower temperatures of the old bulb, as recommended from a friend who handles reptiles.)

Your little guy has MBD. He has to have treatment by a qualified Reptile Vet. Third pic... They do not lay like that when healthy. 4th pic you can see the bend in his bones of his front legs. View that one compared to the 6th pic where the bones are straight.

I hate to tell you this but we can not give him what he needs. He will die without proper treatment by a Vet.

We can go over your husbandry and enclosure later... Right now nothing I tell you additionally for that will help him.

 

[sebastianzhall]

@sebastianzhall
I very clearly remember ordering a T5 Tropical 5.0 UVB, and I'm pretty positive the packaging said T5, but when I look for the same bulb only T8 comes up. His basking area is just at 9 inches below the bulb. So Take a look at the bulb. The bulbs should have on it what it is... A T8 bulb is bigger then a T5. T5 bulbs are like the size in diameter of a finger. Not large at all. If it is a T8 then this is the issue. Because with a T8 5.0 bulb their basking has to sit only 5 inches down to get the right levels. So that their body rises up into the correct UVI level of a 3. Where he is sitting at nine inches down he would barely be gettin a 1 UVI if that even. I believe you may very well have a T8 and he is having issues with improper UVB levels for D3 conversion. Take that with the improper supplementation it makes sense to me.

Depending on your temps where you live... If you can take him in his cage outside and let him get some UVB from sun this could help him. BUT it can not be hot temps. Looking for mid 60-70's max and you need to stay out there with him. If he starts gaping it is too warm for him. Get him out for an hour if possible. But watch him closely Hot weather is very very dangerous for chams. It can kill them. This is why I am saying only when your temps allow for it. With him already being compromised I would not want exposure to high temps at all. And 70's in the sun can feel more like 90's so you have to be careful with this.

What are you using for heat lamp? I was using Zoo Med's Basking Spot Heat Lamp, but I have to replace the bulb. He's only been without for a couple of days. Do you recommend any certain lamp/bulb for basking? Use a regular household bulb that is an incandescent bulb. Just make sure it is not an LED type. A 60 watt should be fine.

Looking at the bulb, it says it's a T8. I will move his basking spot closer to the bulb to give him the proper UVI. Since moving I have been taking him outside for a couple hours at a time, especially when it's in the mid 70s, he loves it. I never leave him in direct sunlight though, always just half of his hammock in the sun and half of it under the shade.

 

[NashansCamos]

Ok so @sebastianzhall that cage is fine in size but is really bare. There's a lot of sticks in there which is good but not a lot of leaves. Look for a potted plant a little shorter than the height of the cage and buy it. I reccomend pothos. Look for a 100cm tall pothos. Also i'm going to say that it looks like a t8. After he gets vet treatment for his mbd of course.

 

[NashansCamos]

Just to give you more info

MBD - Metabolic Bone Disease is a problem with bone growth and is caused by not enough uvb and d3 and other reasons.

Beman will tell you more on how to treat it

 

[sebastianzhall]

@Beman @NashansCamos Thank you both so much for your help. I will see what we can do for vet treatment as soon as possible. Currently calling around to get best price ideas. The closest one is still a couple hour drive, so any tips on travelling?

 

[Beman]

@Beman @NashansCamos Thank you both so much for your help. I will see what we can do for vet treatment as soon as possible. Currently calling around to get best price ideas. The closest one is still a couple hour drive, so any tips on travelling?

Make sure they are in fact a reptile vet. A regular vet will have no idea what to do for him. For traveling put little man in a box with a towel on the bottom. close it up and he will fall asleep. He will not get stressed this way. Also make sure your car is cooled off. You do not want him in a hot car.
You will need to order the T5HO with the 5.0 bulb though. That is the one important thing he will need for recovery along with what the vet gives you additionally.

Good luck and let us know how he does. When your ready to go over the enclosure changes let us know.