I hate the B S

[williamdillon]

Okay kinda upset i guess i didnt do enough research but anyway. I just owned a Veiled Female for about a year so she was 1 year and 2 months old when it happened. She was always healthy active happy ate like a pig out of her cage almost everytime and drank water all the time she sometimes would gaurd it and sleep by it as if it where going to go some where. one day she didnt eat right away then not at all about three days after the fist sign of being "tired" she was laying on the bottom of her cage on her side. I thought she was dead but when i picked her up she gasped for air. It was sat afternoon. There where no vets available except a emergency vet that didnt take reptiles. I loved her and could not let her suffer so i had them put her to sleep she was turning white.
My only thought for her death is that she was egg bound (something unmentioned and very important, i didnt find anything about this till i started searching her symtoms on the internet) WHY DONT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS MORE REALLY NO ONE WARNS YOU OR ANYTHING COME ON.
So this blog is dedicated to the boycott of female chams in acception of breeders plus it is so stressfull alot of females die durring egg laying please give feedback neg. or pos. lol im open and pissed but also am interested in getting another cham only if i can keep it alive for a full healthy life any breeders that can contact me would be appreciated only the best. Anyone have a sugestion for a breeder.

 

[Dunnigan]

It would be impossible or females to only be owned by breeders. For example what would happen if someone had a clutch of 50 eggs and 30 happened to be female? What would happen to those females of a breeder wouldent want to buy them.

I do agree with you that most sellers of chameleons fail to mention 90% of the knowledge that is needed to successfully keep these animals.

For a reputable breeder look at the site sponsors in the upper right hand corner

 

[Julirs]

The fact is that so many Petstores that sell chams do not have the information or do not pass on crucial information for their care. I am sorry to hear that you lost your female. If you had a laying bucket in her cage this could have been avoided if she did die from being eggbound. Wish you had found us earlier.

 

[williamdillon]

yeah the pet store was bad but its not just that i did research and watched videos and pictures yadayadayada on the internet for the past year and no where did i see anything about them needing egglaying container that should be like everywhere posted huge "IF YOU BUY A FEMALE CHAM GET HER A EGG LAYING BUCKET" its the number one thing on the list she woulda had better odds with no light no heat no uvb no d3 and no uteris.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

We talk about it here every day.
I am also sorry you lost your female.
Here is a good site for veiled info:

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

-Brad

 

[Zen Reptiles]

This is and has been talked about a lot.

It is also VERY simple to deal with. All they need is a place to lay eggs.
Mine would lay her eggs in her large ficus tree pot (about 18 inches in diamter, 12 inches deep)
but a normal ice cream pale will do.

Some people have had great success with sticking their cham in a garbage can 1/4 full of moist sand.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Also, it'd be hard to boycott female chams since they make up 50-75% of the clutch....

This is the breeder's responsibility to sell their baby chameleons to pet stores and suppliers who will agree to hand out information (that the breeder should provide) at the sale of the chameleon.

Maybe if people didn't get into this hobby just for the money.....

We should make a sticky about this though, if there isn't one already.

 

[tburgcris]

I am sorry for your loss, but it is your job to research not the pet shops job to instruct u because half of them know squat about chams or half the pets they sell for that matter.

 

[warpdrive]

Hi Will,

first off, I want to say how sorry I am to hear this happen to you and your chameleon.
it realy is sad that it had to happen.


with that said, I personaly just don't understand why people get any pet with limited or no research at all.
I don't care if it is just a hamster. people need to buy at least a cheap book.

as a child, I used to breed hamsters to help pay for everything I needed, such as food and litter...
I mostly used to sell to petstores, but I did have a few buyers that were friends.
I always recamended a good book regardless that I gave them a care sheet .(something that was almost never heard of back then...like 30 years ago.
today, some petstores have care sheets, but a good book is worth 10 times more then some silly piece of paper.)


while the Chemeleons in general is not an easy pet to have, there are some pets that I feel require more time and far more research before getting.
sugar gliders are a great example of a pet that requires a ton of reasearch first.
just look at any breeder website and you'll not only find links to informaton, but alot of them will require that you MUST fill out a questionare or speak to the breeder to anser questions, to ensure that you know what you are getting into and know how to care for such an animal BEFORE THE SELLER WOULD EVEN THINK OF GIVING YOU A BABY.
I wish all breeders were like this for all animals/fish/birds/reptiles.

regardless, it is the resposability of all pet owners to know and understand the care involved with any pet they choose to get.
buying a good book explaining the care requirements is manditory IMHO.

if by chance you are looking to buy an other chameleon, please buy a good book FIRST.

above all, welcome to this site.
you'll find great people and lots of info on just about everything regarding chameleons here.

Harry

 

[laurie]

I am really sorry you lost your girl. for me losing a cham is heartbreaking. But on the other side of that coin, I just hatched 25 baby veileds. I live in Montana, yes unless I know the person buying my chams I wil include a care sheet, but do you kow how hard it is to screen people long distance? i am not in this for the money but rather because I love the chams and wanted to watch the little green babies grow. I may only sell them on this forum so that they go to qualified people but since lots of others have babies what should I do if they don't sell? Like a lot of others I needed MUCH better planning and foresight.

 

[blackbetty]

..This is where you, the buyer, needs to not be so impulsive. GO home, study info..then study more and more.. People dont give you a handbook when you become a parent..you cant rely on them to do the same when you become a pet owner.. You chose to buy the pet, you should be prepared. Sorry for your loss.

 

[kinyonga]

Although its extremely important to provide a suitable place all the time in the cage for any egglaying female chameleon to dig in case she has to lay eggs, overfeeding once they are sexually mature, incorrect supplementation and incorrect gutloading, etc. can also contribute to the likelihood of it occurring.

Even if someone buys a chameleon on a whim, if they went right home and started to look up information on the internet, join a couple of chameleon forums, etc. they still could learn fairly quickly about their husbandry and how to avoid some of the pitfalls. Its certainly a lot easier than when I started over 20 years ago!

 

[Dunnigan]

Im going to say this as a once ill-informed pet store shopper.

When someone at a pet store, who is suposedly a knowledgeable person, tells a person something, that person has no reason not to beleive them...untill the shopper has a sick chameleon on their hands. IMO it IS THE SELLERS (be it a pet store or private seller) to inform the buyer of what he or she is getting into.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Im sorry you lost your female.

I never recomend a female to new owners because of the extra work and potential issues associated with eggs. But honestly its not really that difficult to provide what is needed.

Information about egg laying IS widely documented, if not always in great detail. Every book on chameleons I have read has a section devoted to such things. Most websites I've visted have at least a mention. This site seems to have the topic come up nearly weekly.
I think its the BUYERS responsibility to be well informed before taking on responsiblity for a living creature. Some people put far more research into what car or TV or computer to purchase than they do about animals. A true shame.

Sellers are selling an item, not information, not manuals.

 

[critterguy]

exactly most people assume the petstores are the experts as they keep the animals alive. Petstores, at least as far as exotic reptiles are concerned need to stop acting like they know all the fine details of what is needed(most don't). However, if you make keeping a chameleon sound complicated you are not going to sell many.

It'd be simple though just to tell people to do research. I do believe it is the buyers responsibility to read(I don't even own one cham but have been reading about them for years and may get one someday), but too many assume that the store knows all they need.

 

[blackbetty]

Im sorry you lost your female.

I never recomend a female to new owners because of the extra work and potential issues associated with eggs. But honestly its not really that difficult to provide what is needed.

Information about egg laying IS widely documented, if not always in great detail. Every book on chameleons I have read has a section devoted to such things. Most websites I've visted have at least a mention. This site seems to have the topic come up nearly weekly.
I think its the BUYERS responsibility to be well informed before taking on responsiblity for a living creature. Some people put far more research into what car or TV or computer to purchase than they do about animals. A true shame.

Sellers are selling an item, not information, not manuals.

Bravo! I am an impulsive person especially when it comes to saving critters and have learned to make myself stop and think about it. Im not going to help the animal anymore if I am not sure of how to care for it. Pet stores are not losing anything. They pay the breeder like 20 bucks per animal.. and most people see something exotic and want it. Kinda like bragging rights.. and then bam, thing gets sick and dies and they all wanna jump on the petstore/breeder. I do not support pet store critters if I see that they arent in the proper environment to begin with. I dont like seeing animals die but I cant allow myself or my kids to get attached to something knowing it will 99% probably die anyways, even in my care, and then Im out $$ and emotions/time/effort, ect...I support those willing to give it a go, by all means, but you purchase, you are responsible once it leaves that place. I understand that you want to believe people..but these days, everyone is out to make a buck and telling someone a 10 gallon will do is going to cheaper than telling them they need a 175 gallon reptarium, UV lighting, automister, live plants, crickets, roaches, horns, flies, vines, timer, ect..Get it?

I saw someone trying to sell their bearded dragon and wanted $100 because it included setup..you know that that was? Some sand and a rock in a 10 gallon tank.. Yea, 10 gallon ..Haha.. no. I told the person, that lizard will outgrow that tank in a months time.. but they didnt care..what happens in a month when they still have it and the lizard is too big for it? They still wont care.. you cant force someone to take care of something these days..Its the animals that suffer..

 

[kinyonga]

Dunnigan said..."When someone at a pet store, who is suposedly a knowledgeable person, tells a person something, that person has no reason not to beleive them...untill the shopper has a sick chameleon on their hands."...this is true...but IMHO, if I were to buy a critter the first thing I would do is look for information on it to see if I could learn anything else about it. That being said, the person then has the problem of knowing what to believe because there are so many different sites (including forums) offering varying/different information on the same critter.

 

[Dunnigan]

Dunnigan said..."When someone at a pet store, who is suposedly a knowledgeable person, tells a person something, that person has no reason not to beleive them...untill the shopper has a sick chameleon on their hands."...this is true...but IMHO, if I were to buy a critter the first thing I would do is look for information on it to see if I could learn anything else about it. That being said, the person then has the problem of knowing what to believe because there are so many different sites (including forums) offering varying/different information on the same critter.

Very true!

It is very confusing our there with so many different sources of information...im so thankful for the internet and its ability for us to find information at the drop of a hat...but with that information one needs the ability to sort the crap out of the good stuff. This is why i am glad i stumbled across this site and the good people here!

 

[jojackson]

When I first considered getting one, first thing I did was type 'chameleon forum' into google. Guess which site was first on the list?
I scoured this site for 3-4 months reading everything related to my species care, taking notes, comparing, disregarding crap and forming an idea of what was needed, before I even considered buying.
By the time one was avail, I was ready, the cage was ready, food supply was ready.
It was still a big step, but 6 months in, my cham is thriving, Thanks to infornmation here.

Nobody is better equipt to educate you than those who keep/breed them successfully.
The descision to get a male was due to the information you missed out on.

So now you know, that puts you a step ahead. Best wishes in future.