I just dont get whats wrong...

[Sepioteuthis]

Bucky,

Do you take Louie to one of the vets at SEAVS in Vienna (www.seavs.com)?If not I would suggest that you give them a try. All three vets at that clinic are fantastic. We take all our herps there.

And if you supplement with reptivite then there is no way that he's not getting enough vit A. I would definitely not change supplementation unless bloodwork shows that there is a nutrient imbalance.

Suzanne

 

[Cainschams]

Sepioteuthis I am currently looking for a new vet. I live in Hagerstown and the one in West minster I just dont like. I was going to try Eastern exotic veterinary center in fairfax. Have you tried these guys. The website looks really professional and they have a cham on the front so they might have some experience with them. Does the one in vienna have much cham experience. Also can you provide the link again its not working for me. Thanks a bunch in advance.

Cain.

Sorry Bucky Im not trying to hijack your thread. Your guy has some awesome coloring I cant wait to see him in person.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Never been to the place in Fairfax, so I can't give you any feedback on them.
SEAVS is the only one that I've been to. The 'head vet' Scott Stahl has a lot of experience not just with treating but also keeping chameleons, and it shows. All three vets are great, btw. Here is the link again: www.seavs.com

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

According to Coke, hypovitamosis A can cause occular inflammation and increased infections. Fergusen states that hypovitamosis A can cause eyelid closure and oozing.

This is paraphrased from an article in the Journal of Herptalogical Medicine and Surgery Voume 13 , No.2, 2003.

So clearly no one is jumping on the Vit A bandwagon here. It is probable that the eye issue is related to hypovitamosis A.

Bucky consider discussing this possiblilty with your vet.

I agree Chroma, hypovitaminosis A can cause eye problems, but so can millions of other things. I wouldn't say it is probable but maybe a slight possibility. Think of how many times you have seen your chams rub their eye on a branch or something like that. All it takes is a tiny particle to cause irritation allowing for an infection. I have read the article many times and what many people are not getting out of that article is that their control group was not getting any gut-loaded crickets and needed A supplementation, not the ones with gut-loaded crickets. The last paragraph says Panther chameleons should require about 1 - 2 IU/g given as a weekly oral dose or gut-loaded crickets. That is miniscule...we are talking 52 to 104 a year Now go take a look at the amount in our supplementation, we are talking about your chameleon almost gets enough by just smelling that stuff. That article is not telling everyone to supplement with vitamin A, it is saying that chameleons need vitamin A. Which to me is duhhh....I believe every animal needs vitamin A. Vitamin A plays a huge role in cell development, without it animals will not grow or reproduce. Now think how many people have grown and reproduced chameleons successfully before anyone thought of supplementing vitamin A which shows you they are getting it somehow without our preformed vitamin A.

I am sorry Chroma, I have just seen A far too often accused for something that is not probable in my opinion and I wanted to justify where my thoughts came from. I have been fortunate not to deal with many eye issues but the ones I have, Fortaz worked wonders. I normally try terramycin for a couple days before I go at it with Fortaz.

Best of luck Bucky and definitely continue to use treatment for a week or so after the signs of irritation have gone away.

-chris

 

[ChromaChameleons]

You originally did not agree that Hypovitamosis A could cause eye problems.

Gutloaded crickets would require a vitamin A supplemented gutload, such as fortified grain , not just greens, as stated in the article.

1-2 IU/g weekly dose would equate to 7500 IU yearly for a typical 75g female and upwards of 15,000 IU for a male , not 52 to 104 IU in a year.

a 2.0oz container of Reptivite contains 12,500 IU of Vitamin A .Subtract the wasted dust when dusting and the limited potency of the dust , over time, once the container is opened and I believe that reptivite used once a week , would never come close to the recommended dosage .

I have also had eye problems in Panthers corrected by additional vitamin A supplementation.

I do recommend that Bucky discuss the possibilities with his vet.

I disagree with your belief, that Vit A deficiency is an overstated malady.

 

[bucky]

Bucky,

Do you take Louie to one of the vets at SEAVS in Vienna (www.seavs.com)?If not I would suggest that you give them a try. All three vets at that clinic are fantastic. We take all our herps there.

And if you supplement with reptivite then there is no way that he's not getting enough vit A. I would definitely not change supplementation unless bloodwork shows that there is a nutrient imbalance.

Suzanne

Yup i do! Sadly ALL the vet visits havent done the trick yet...and its all good cains I preciate the output on the vitamin A,but i know lbesok knows her stuff and she has been through similar stuff,im not going to rule it out, the next poo,im going to contain and schedule a visit to SEAVS. *Note: sep i had Louie go to Dr.Scott stahl over night, and he flushed out ducts running by his eye and nose, gave me anti inflamatory/anti-bacteria ointment to put in his eyes. I had all the other times seen Dr.Carr and she has given us omega 3 and something else to compliment it. Now,he is eating fine it seems,he will momentarily open his eye to aim at a cricket.

 

[bucky]

I was wondering if i should schedule the vet visit before Louie poos or not? Cause i wanna take his poo in for a test, but i dont wanna go in before he poos!

 

[lbesok]

I was wondering if i should schedule the vet visit before Louie poos or not? Cause i wanna take his poo in for a test, but i dont wanna go in before he poos!

I would prob double check with them about the cancellation/re-schedule policy. If they don't charge you for re-scheduling, you could probably secure the appointment for a convenient time, and tell them that it is for a fecal. The best specimen would be moist and fresh! If you didn't have a fresh specimen then you could tell them what's going on and re-schedule for a different time. Sometimes, if you are a regular customer, they will just let you drop it off and check it with out a scheduled appointment and the fees associated with that
I really do appreciate your respect and consideration, thank you.

 

[bucky]

Alright, my dad might be able to drive by there on his way home from work and drop it off, then we could get an appointment for him. In the meantime,should i keep on applying the anti bacterial/anti inflammitory ointment in his eye?

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Yup i do! Sadly ALL the vet visits havent done the trick yet...and its all good cains I preciate the output on the vitamin A,but i know lbesok knows her stuff and she has been through similar stuff,im not going to rule it out, the next poo,im going to contain and schedule a visit to SEAVS. *Note: sep i had Louie go to Dr.Scott stahl over night, and he flushed out ducts running by his eye and nose, gave me anti inflamatory/anti-bacteria ointment to put in his eyes. I had all the other times seen Dr.Carr and she has given us omega 3 and something else to compliment it. Now,he is eating fine it seems,he will momentarily open his eye to aim at a cricket.

I didn't mean that you should rule vit A problems out (and it wasn't my intent to question lbesok's knowledge), I just don't think it would be a good idea to increase supplementation without verification.
You could have bloodwork done the next time you're at SEAVS (if you haven't done so already), it's not cheap, but I think it's worth it at this point.

- Suzanne

 

[bucky]

I wasnt sayin you were ?The last time he had bloodwork there,they said his calcium/phosphorus ratios werent good, so thats when they suggested using the omega 3, but i have stopped because i didnt think it was helping. Then we took him in and the ratios were back in to where they should be.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Bucky,

Was just asked to take a look a this thread, and had not noticed it earlier.

I hope things have improved, but would like to add a few comments/rebuttals to what has already been posted.

Many have expressed caution regarding vitamin A. Some innacurate numbers were also tossed about, then corrected. Most Vitamin A regimens are expressed as being "believed to be safe", in that there is a body of success within those parameters. Caution is always important, but I cringe when I see Vitamin A relegated as something to "not jump to", and in the same breath, you are advised to first administer Fortaz, tetramycin, terramycin, gentacin, etc., as though caution is to be excessively observed on one hand, and ignored by the other. All deserve caution.

Someone posted this:

And if you supplement with reptivite then there is no way that he's not getting enough vit A.

Reptivite is to be applauded for at least having retinal acetate in it. It is our opinion that acetate is far less effective than palmitate, that any Vitamin A is far less effective as a dusted supplement, and that the concentration of the acetate in Reptivite falls far below any hope of being able to administer an effective dose, perhaps by a factor of 100. Dusting is a hugely inexact means of dosing, and the concentration is that small. All of our experience would therefore rate the quoted statement as being grossly incorrect.

Please do not conclude that I am saying that hypovitaminosis A is your chameleon's problem. Just wanted to influence the perspective offered so far. Good luck.

 

[Cainschams]

Hey bucky, I just wanted to add to Jims post something he had mentioned in another thread and also thank him for mentioning that. I forget what thread and what it was about but He was talking about chameleons not getting misted in nature they get rained on. My female was having issues with one of her eyes. It would seem to come and go. Now I am not saying this is what "cured" her but I havent seen any problems in her eye for sometime now. I made my mister have a more open hole so it doesnt mist as fine and its more like rain. I also stopped misting her directly as with my other chams. I just water the plants and it then drops down on them simulating a more rain like watering. Like I said I dont know if she was getting mist in the eye and it irritating it or if it was something else like dirt in it from laying or a vitamin deficiency but it is definatly something to think about. Also the probabitlity of only misting him on that one side everytime is pretty low but again something to think about.

Thanks Jim and see you soon bucky.

 

[Brian]

Hey bucky, I just wanted to add to Jims post something he had mentioned in another thread and also thank him for mentioning that. I forget what thread and what it was about but He was talking about chameleons not getting misted in nature they get rained on. My female was having issues with one of her eyes. It would seem to come and go. Now I am not saying this is what "cured" her but I havent seen any problems in her eye for sometime now. I made my mister have a more open hole so it doesnt mist as fine and its more like rain. I also stopped misting her directly as with my other chams. I just water the plants and it then drops down on them simulating a more rain like watering. Like I said I dont know if she was getting mist in the eye and it irritating it or if it was something else like dirt in it from laying or a vitamin deficiency but it is definatly something to think about. Also the probabitlity of only misting him on that one side everytime is pretty low but again something to think about.

Thanks Jim and see you soon bucky.

I have noticed the same thing...one of my females stated favoring her left eye. It has stated getting better, as I haven't been using the mister on her. I also take her outside to wet her down real good. Im not positive its from this, but the mist shure is fine. If I were to keep my hand on the mist, I wouldn't feel water for a few seconds They only time they get "rain" is when I can roll them outside. I also heard that the fine mist can probably go inside there nose etc. It can be a potential problem bucky, do you have a misting system? What kind of misting system do you have cain?

 

[Cainschams]

I dont have an automated system yet its all by hand. I am working on some drainage enclosures and when I am done I wont have amisting system. I do inground sprinklers and have access to drip irrigation. I will be using this on my cages. You get a gallon an hour out of each hole in the hose and they are spaced a foot apart from each other. I use this method on my outdoor enclosures as well but its not on a timer I just hook the contraption up to my hose and turn it on. So you got any pics of the Fireball boys?

 

[Brian]

I dont have an automated system yet its all by hand. I am working on some drainage enclosures and when I am done I wont have amisting system. I do inground sprinklers and have access to drip irrigation. I will be using this on my cages. You get a gallon an hour out of each hole in the hose and they are spaced a foot apart from each other. I use this method on my outdoor enclosures as well but its not on a timer I just hook the contraption up to my hose and turn it on. So you got any pics of the Fireball boys?

oh, I see. When I roll my racks outside I just use the hose with one of those showers nozzles and It works great. They think its raining I'll take some pics of them tomorow and post them on the forum. There from another clutch... the older male is about 5 months, and showing a lot of yellow, orange. I hope he turns out like his dad.

 

[Cainschams]

Cool I didnt know they had anymore clutches. Mrs fireball was born feb. last year. I was supposed to get a male but they sent me a female. Honestly I dont know how they couldnt tell but they gave me a discount on another purchase so I got a banana rhama male. I really dont mind since I got one of the most beautiful ladies I have seen. She gets more compliments than my older male.Anyway cant wait to see the pics. I hope they turn out like dad too that is my favorite panther I have seen just amazing.

 

[bucky]

Jeez guys im sorry,i didnt realize this thread had any new posts on it. I have a better understanding on Vit A. now, im not an expert and wouldnt give anyone advice on it,but a better understanding. I dont want to jinx anything but he has been doing better. Im using the calcium/d3 once a week,reptivite every other week supplement schedule still. Now,i have had to use the cathoder and the eye oinment a few times,but not on a daily basis or frequently(knock on wood). Hes eating like a machine, and drinks fine. I use a hand pump mister,something you get from home depot,and misting him for 3-4min 2x a day. Im able to mist longer now cause i got something to catch the water,the newspaper is gone now And cain you still gotta call