I know this is dumb but is it possible?

[DanSB]

There is actually a fair amount of genetic work with chameleons as far as taxonomy. I just did a project for a conservation genetics class and found at least a handful of papers that used mtDNA to classify species of chameleons. Now, whether those changes were put into place I don't know, but the work is there.

I'm glad to hear it! I know when I was taking college level biology 10 years ago it was in the works but not a whole lot had been done.

I suppose it will take 20 years to get all the data, 20 to sort it out, then a few hundred years to bicker over interpretations!

 

[DekuScrub]

So I think the technical term might just have to be "Humping"

i have never laughed so hard at something on chameleon forums, thank you for that my face officially hurts from extreme laughter.

lol its true tho.

There is actually a fair amount of genetic work with chameleons as far as taxonomy. I just did a project for a conservation genetics class and found at least a handful of papers that used mtDNA to classify species of chameleons. Now, whether those changes were put into place I don't know, but the work is there.

people have actually begun mapping chameleon genomes? and mitochondrial dna for that matter? that just sounds absurd honestly. who the hell is funding that? are you sure thats accurate? granted mapping genomes has become much easier in recent years, but to what end would people with money waste it on such a meager endevour? (not meager to us however....)

taxonomy and mapping genome are far far from one another. then again i may be ignorant here.

its just as i understand taxonomy relies on skeletal structure and other anatomy and how that relates to other organisms.....not how taht relates to genetics and to waht degree the species may have diverged from one another or a common ancestor.

 

[Solid Snake]

people have actually begun mapping chameleon genomes? and mitochondrial dna for that matter? that just sounds absurd honestly. who the hell is funding that? are you sure thats accurate? granted mapping genomes has become much easier in recent years, but to what end would people with money waste it on such a meager endevour? (not meager to us however....)

taxonomy and mapping genome are far far from one another. then again i may be ignorant here.

its just as i understand taxonomy relies on skeletal structure and other anatomy and how that relates to other organisms.....not how taht relates to genetics and to waht degree the species may have diverged from one another or a common ancestor.

Yes that is accurate.

"We are using DNA to inform us about the taxonomy of chameleons and about population level processes. In some cases, chameleons are still being described and named, and our DNA studies are central to uncovering these species. At the population level, we conduct studies of gene flow and population structure in natural and fragmented landscapes. To conduct these studies, DNA samples are taken from each individual and the samples are banked at SANBI. The samples then undergo DNA sequencing and microsatellite analysis."

http://sites.google.com/site/reptilespeciationproject/chameleon-research-group

 

[Jbujarski]

I thought taxonomy was based on sexual reproduction? At least with fungi some have two different names because at one point in life they reproduce asexually while another is sexually and were considered two different species until later on

 

[PREACHAP]

taxonomy is the science of identifying and naming species and arranging into classifications

 

[DekuScrub]

Yes that is accurate.

"We are using DNA to inform us about the taxonomy of chameleons and about population level processes. In some cases, chameleons are still being described and named, and our DNA studies are central to uncovering these species. At the population level, we conduct studies of gene flow and population structure in natural and fragmented landscapes. To conduct these studies, DNA samples are taken from each individual and the samples are banked at SANBI. The samples then undergo DNA sequencing and microsatellite analysis."

http://sites.google.com/site/reptilespeciationproject/chameleon-research-group

awesome information but the research seems very limited and specialized. are they mapping the genomes or are they making obvious comparisons with readily available information withing the populations of same species.

i was just making note of the fact you really cant make the comparison of how closely related species are unless youve done EXTENSIVE research. and such research amongst all species or even a wide array within genera would require quite a lot of funding.

cool shiz tho

 

[DekuScrub]

taxonomy is the science of identifying and naming species and arranging into classifications

based on DUM DUM DUM anatomy. not genetics. thats expensive

 

[PREACHAP]

I wasn't sure on the 100% definition so I looked it up lol
instead of saying things I really did not know

 

[Solid Snake]

based on DUM DUM DUM anatomy. not genetics. thats expensive

Its not that expensive Im sure, when you factor in all the costs of having multiple (fallible)people, researching forever, and ever, and ever...

tax·on·o·my/takˈsänəmē/
Noun:

The branch of science concerned with classification, esp. of organisms; systematics.

So just classification in general is what it seems like the word refers to.

Genetics reveals a lot that you cant see with the eye as well.

So I would assume that it would give a more detailed spread of information by which to classify the animals.

 

[DekuScrub]

i think youre giving far too much credit to the current state of scientific research snake.

as i said before i dont feel as though the extent of research you and olympia are assuming is accurate. at least in regards to it being extensive enough to make any sort of immediate conclusion. then again i wouldnt expect either of you to be so presumptive. certainly comparing and contrasting organisms within a secluded environment will allude to higher understanding of genealogy BUT in reference to the questions at hand, the question posed by the original poster. this information is severely limited in regards to what animals may or my not be compatible for hybridization.

 

[PREACHAP]

Jurassic Park "life will find a way"

 

[DanSB]

You would be amazed at what people get grants to do and what biologists get interested in. Taxonomic classification has been around forever and as the definition Preach gives tells us that the goal is to identify and classify.

Classification can be done in ANY manner that gives us an indication of how closely related the animals are. Previously morphological comparisons were all we had. Biologists have gotten very good at comparing this way.

Now we also have the added tool of genetics which for all intents and purposes is more accurate than morphology. Studying DNA allows us a glimpse as to the building blocks of an organism. Often similar morphological traits can arise with a different DNA structure, or more likely more similar DNA structures will not manifest similar traits.

If I remember correctly Mitochondrial DNA analysis is much less expensive and the easiest form of genetic analysis which is what Olimpia was talking about. I think it cost 75 or a 100 dollars to have your mtDNA analyzed so you can find out where your ancestors were from. I would imagine profiling chameleon DNA in this way is much less expensive and from the sounds of it they are getting lots of free student labor!

I'm not a professional biologist I just took way too many biology classes in college and had an intense interest in genome studies and taxonomy of early hominids and birds for a few years so hopefully someone with more current information who isn't operating through the haze of many years of partying in between can correct me where I might be off.

 

[Solid Snake]

awesome information but the research seems very limited and specialized. are they mapping the genomes or are they making obvious comparisons with readily available information withing the populations of same species.

i was just making note of the fact you really cant make the comparison of how closely related species are unless youve done EXTENSIVE research. and such research amongst all species or even a wide array within genera would require quite a lot of funding.

cool shiz tho

Missed this. I am not exactly sure what methods they are using, nor do I know much about genetic testing myself. ;/

As to who is funding them, the site credits:

National Research Foundation, South Africa
Jordan Wine, Stellenbosch, South Africa (sponsoring student bursaries)

i think youre giving far too much credit to the current state of scientific research snake.

as i said before i dont feel as though the extent of research you and olympia are assuming is accurate. at least in regards to it being extensive enough to make any sort of immediate conclusion. then again i wouldnt expect either of you to be so presumptive. certainly comparing and contrasting organisms within a secluded environment will allude to higher understanding of genealogy BUT in reference to the questions at hand, the question posed by the original poster. this information is severely limited in regards to what animals may or my not be compatible for hybridization.

If you could clarify that bit in red.

I was merely linking the site to show that chameleon DNA testing does go on.

As to whether or not it is understood/studied enough to be able to tell if certain chameleons could successfully breed, I would not know.
That particular study is concerned with clarifying all the sub-species and locales of Bradypodion (as I understand it) for conservation purposes, as they are not believed to all be accounted for. They concern themselves with location data, so that regional movement can be tracked.

 

[PREACHAP]

see I've always had the thought that animals could crossbreed since I was like 5 when I was 7 I was using hypodermic needles to try and take blood from a snake to a frog , lol then I'd keep the frog and get it to mate and have babies on some mad scientist shizz
but yea

glad to see I sparked a fire of inquisitiveness with some of you

 

[arnau666]

panther colors ,parsons eyes and size ,veiled casquet, jacksons horns damn i want this !

maybe at some point it will be possible ! genetics will find a way

 

[PREACHAP]

Jurassic Park "life will find a way"

maybe at some point it will be possible ! genetics will find a way

I see what you did there lol

 

[DanSB]

see I've always had the thought that animals could crossbreed since I was like 5 when I was 7 I was using hypodermic needles to try and take blood from a snake to a frog , lol then I'd keep the frog and get it to mate and have babies on some mad scientist shizz
but yea

glad to see I sparked a fire of inquisitiveness with some of you

So I guess I'll be the one to say it...

That isn't right in so very many ways and I certainly hope you have grown out of amateur cross species blood transfusions with the adult understanding that that is actually cruel and slightly sociopathic.

Please understand I mean this i only the nicest of ways and please don't send your flying monkeys after me for saying it.

In the future don't disclose meaningless experimentation on live animals in a public forum.

 

[PREACHAP]

some of the smartest people in the world might have been slightly sociopathic
but yea sorry my 7 yr old curiosity is a reason to call peta. lol

atleast I was doing that instead of sh*t that other people have done around that age .
I could have been
A. twisting heads off kittens
B. touching neighbor girls my age.
C. burning ants with a magnifying glass
D. killed somebody


you see my subjects lived! lol

catching my socio-ness yet buddy??????

 

[DanSB]

some of the smartest people in the world might have been slightly sociopathic
but yea sorry my 7 yr old curiosity is a reason to call peta. lol

atleast I was doing that instead of sh*t that other people have done around that age .
I could have been
A. twisting heads off kittens
B. touching neighbor girls my age.
C. burning ants with a magnifying glass
D. killed somebody


you see my subjects lived! lol

catching my socio-ness yet buddy??????

Ha ha all good points.

I was just giving you a hard time because that is so far out of what I have heard as the norm for childhood antics. I really didn't mean to come off as being over critical of what someone did as a child.

When you stop and think about it something like that is merely an indicator of a highly intelligent and inquisitive mind. Children at that age have poorly developed empathetic ability in general and this really isn't sociopath behavior because you didn't do it from being sadistic you did it from curiosity probably without a thought in the world that anything could possibly get hurt.

Either way I'm willing to bet you didn't actually get frogs with snake powers... did you?

They are doing some Chimera type animals. Here is an article discussing the ethics but has some neat info. You really needed to inject stem cells at the embryo stage... you came pretty close for a 7 year old!

http://www.ahc.umn.edu/img/assets/25857/chimeras.pdf

 

[PREACHAP]

nope no snogs, no frakes, no snagpoles nothin! lol glad we could both see my intentions were innocent

but yea that link has some interesting stuff indeed, we've got enough humans that act like monkeys we don't need humonkey-chimeras lol