I Think My Cham Has MBD

cdavisrunner

New Member
Hi my name is Chris. This is my first post on here so I hope this is the right place for it. I think my veiled chameleon Matumbo may have MBD. I have some info about him, his symptoms and my setup below.

Chameleon Info:

Matumbo - Matumbo is a male veiled chameleon who is about 11 months old. I have had him for 8 months.

Handling - I take him out of his cage 1-2 times a week.

Feeding - His main food source is medium to large crickets. I also feed him super worms, and just introduced him to Dubai roaches. I make sure that there is a constant supply of feeders in his cage so that he can eat when ever he wants. I replenish this supply of feeders about once a week. I put Zoo Med's natural cricket care at the bottom of the cage for the crickets to eat. I also think the shop that I buy crickets from gut loads them (I plan to double check this when I go in next.

Supplements - The only supplement that Matumbo gets is Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 and I dust every set of crickets he gets. Of course some of it comes off after a few days of them wondering the cage.

Watering - I spray him and his cage with a misting bottle multiple times a day. I often see him drinking from the leaves and he will sometimes drink straight the spray bottle (he hasn't been drinking from the spray bottle directly lately). I also have a dripper in his cage.

Fecal Description - His droppings are white and brown. They are often moist but that could be from the spray bottle. My cham has not been tested for parasites.

History - I don't think there is any history worth reporting. He hasn't had any prior issues.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - He is currently in a screen cage that measures 2 feet long by 2 feet wide by 4 feet tall. He was in a screen cage that was 18 inches long by 18 inches wide by 36 inches tall.

Lighting - I am using an Exo Terra Reptile UVB 100 26W bulb (it's a CFL) and an Exo Terra infared basking spot 50W bulb. I use a 12 hour day and 12 hour night.

Temperature - The temp range is about 90 in the basking spot and 70 on the ground level. Overnight everything is about 10 degrees cooler. I use a Zoo Med digital thermometer.

Humidity - The humidity level holds at 70 to 80 percent during the day and I use an Exo Terra hydormeter to measure the humidity. To maintain the humidity I mist frequently, have a Zoo Med eco Earth substrate, and a humidifier in the cage.

Plants - No live plants but I wanted to introduce some.

Placement - My cage is located in the living room of my appartment, It's not near any fans or vents but it is a high traffic area. The cage top is about 6ft and 5in away from the floor.

Location - I live in Denver, Colorado.

Current Problem:

The main issue I have noticed is that during the day my cham is much more brown than usually, I saw him fall from a branch the other day, he is noticeably more irritable, and he just seems weaker than normal.

I'm not sure when this all started though. I was recently in a pretty bad car accident and was not able to be in the apartment with my cham for about 2 and 1/2 weeks due to my injuries. I had to rely on my roommates to take care of him while I was gone (they usually do a good but this was the longest they have had to watch him). Then when I got home, I transferred Matumbo into his new cage. For the first few days he exhibited the issues listed above which I thought could have been due to the cage change but it has been about a week now and that seems like it has been too long for it to be the cage change.

He likes to hang really close to the UVB bulb. He is eating and drinking just fine. He even turns a nice green color when he goes back to sleep. This is what is confusing me as to why he isn't acting like himself.

Thank you for your help!

Chris

P. S. I will be taking him to see a vet on Thursday at 5.
 
Hi Chris

I'm sorry you're having these problems. You should be giving your chameleon a calcium without D3 powder at every feeding. The calcium with D3 should only be used once every two weeks along with a multivitamin. Here's a care sheet https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/ If he's only had calcium with D3 for 8 months then that could definitely be the cause of these mbd like symptoms. Excess D3 can cause calcification of the muscle tissue, making muscles stiff and can cause organ toxicity. I'd imagine the store told you to use that powder exclusively, which unfortunately is very common. It's also not recommended to leave crickets overnight as they tend to nibble at the cham. Best of luck on Thursday.
 
you said you have him for 8 months have you changed the UVB light bulb yet? (people correct me if I am wrong) But UVB bulb should be replaced every 6 months , after 6 months or so they don't work efficiently anymore .
 
I've used two UVB 5.0 bulbs so far I think. I've only been using calcium with D3 so that could be the problem. I'll be sure to mention that to the vet and look into getting some regular calcium. Thanks!
 
I've used two UVB 5.0 bulbs so far I think. I've only been using calcium with D3 so that could be the problem. I'll be sure to mention that to the vet and look into getting some regular calcium. Thanks!

d3 does NOT cause MBD. You are being misinformed here. MBD is caused by lack of calcium or uvb or a combination of both. If you are giving your chameleon calcium and providing uvb daily, then it is highly unlikely your chameleon has MBD. We need to see pictures to diagnose this. Why do you think he has MBD?. What do his limbs look like? Is he losing his grip? I have seen maybe two cases on here in the past 4 years where the owner provided the proper uvb and calcium and the chameleon still displayed signs of MBD. This is a very rare occurance. Overdosing of d3 can cause problems with their organs. What brand of d3 have you been using? Some have very little concentrations of it and therefore if you are using one of those, it might not have as much of a negative effect as some of the brands which contain high levels of it.
 
d3 does NOT cause MBD. You are being misinformed here.

I didn't actually say his chameleon has mbd. I said that the excess d3 could be the reason for the mbd like symptoms, which was how the OP described them. The excess d3 could be why he is appearing weak and falling from branches.
 
I didn't actually say his chameleon has mbd. I said that the excess d3 could be the reason for the mbd like symptoms, which was how the OP described them. The excess d3 could be why he is appearing weak and falling from branches.
I have never heard of d3 causing MBD like symptoms, but maybe you know something I do not and I am always willing to learn. Where did you acquire this info from? I have read that excess d3 can cause organ mineralization, but was not aware that it caused hardening of muscle tissue and would cause a chameleon to loose its grip. We have two vets on board here, and maybe they can weigh in on this issue if they read this thread.
 
I have never heard of d3 causing MBD like symptoms, but maybe you know something I do not and I am always willing to learn. Where did you acquire this info from? I have read that excess d3 can cause organ mineralization, but was not aware that it caused hardening of muscle tissue and would cause a chameleon to loose its grip. We have two vets on board here, and maybe they can weigh in on this issue if they read this thread.

I read it on this blog: http://muchadoaboutchameleons.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/chameleon-physiology-supplements.html?m=1

Please do correct me if I've misinterpreted, it just seems many keepers have reported these symptoms after overdosing with d3
 
I was able to get one of my roommates to take some pictures of Matumbo with their phone.

He is only that color during the day and goes back to a very good looking green at night while he sleeps. Is that normal for a cham to go back to healthy color while they sleep? I'm not sure about his legs either...
 

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He doesn't look like he has any mbd. Limbs look good and his colour looks ok to me.
I'd still check out your supplements to see if one you're using currently is ok.
Do you just put feeders in once a week? Gut loading is really important and if feeders are in a few days to a week before being eaten, they'd of pooped any goodness out of them. Look at feeding daily or every other day, feed your feeders fruit n veg before putting them in for him.
Check sandrachameleons gut loading blogs to get some ideas.
Aswell as lightly dusting with appropriate supplements each feeding.
How often has he fallen? Maybe it was just bad luck he fell, or being bugged by a cricket and dropped.
How's his grip when you handle him?
Kath.
 
I read it on this blog: http://muchadoaboutchameleons.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/chameleon-physiology-supplements.html?m=1

Please do correct me if I've misinterpreted, it just seems many keepers have reported these symptoms after overdosing with d3

Thank you for the article. You can only believe what you read especially when it comes from a credible source. I guess you learn something everyday!! I do know though, that it really depends on what brand d3 you are using as far as overdosing. Many keepers have switched to the Repashy Calcium all in one which contains d3 and are using it on a daily basis. I know if you were using a brand like Repcal, you probably would see some ill effects as it contains a very high concentration of d3. Again, thank you for the info!!!
 
Thank you for the article. You can only believe what you read especially when it comes from a credible source. I guess you learn something everyday!! I do know though, that it really depends on what brand d3 you are using as far as overdosing. Many keepers have switched to the Repashy Calcium all in one which contains d3 and are using it on a daily basis. I know if you were using a brand like Repcal, you probably would see some ill effects as it contains a very high concentration of d3. Again, thank you for the info!!!

Very welcome :) I agree there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding d3 content per product and how much d3 is too much which is why the all in one might work well for most people. I've actually been considering switching myself to give it a try.
 
He's fallen 4 or 5 times in the past week and has never fallen before. I guess that could be part of adjusting to the new cage... But it's been almost a week since I transferred him into his new cage. His grip seems pretty good when I handle him.
 
Here is a picture of him asleep. Up until recently this was what he looked like most of the time.
 

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Well the trip to the vet went well! She said that he is probably just having trouble adjusting to his new, larger cage. She gave me some tips on how to make it easier for him. Such as putting a blanket on one side of the cage so he feels more secure. I'll let you guys all know how it goes!
 
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