I want to see your mitsio pics.

[Undertow11]

Wow, I go out of town on business for a few days and sh*t blows up! lol.

Mitsios are my focus area right now, so this topic interests me quite a bit.

I stand by what I wrote in a previous thread that heavy blue barring is a bad sign if you have a Mitsio. I have seen quite a few WC Mitsios both here in the US and via my friends in Germany and the UK. Not a single one of them has blue barring... just saying...
Chameleon Nation posted a cool video that may or may not show a blue-barred Mitsio and I accept that my views may not be correct (and either way, it was a cool video and thanks for posting it), but in my opinion, and without placing blame, you guys have every right to be skeptical of the bloodlines based on what I've seen.

I own one male from the import shipment that's being discussed. He's at least mostly Mitsio (as he turns yellow at night and has the normal Mitsio characteristics). He has a lot of red-barring though (which doesn't really mean much), but based off of what I'm reading here, I don't think it's worth the risk of me breeding him (unless I decide to literally try a Faly/Mitsio cross, lol). He's still a cool chameleon though and he is going to live out a good life either way.

I have several wild-caught males who look every bit the Mitsio though and I have no reason whatsoever to believe they are impure.
I have one W/C female who is definitely pure Mitsio (and she's gravid... clutch on the way with one of my WC males).
I have one W/C female who is likely pure Mitsio... I'll know better when the eggs hatch and they grow up (I don't fully trust the importer of this one, although I don't have a reason not to trust them either).

I also have a CB female from bloodlines being discussed here.

Does anyone else in the USA have Mitsio bloodlines not affected by this discussion? If so, I propose that those of us who have Mitsios get together and share in some breeding projects. I did a similar project earlier this year and we just split the eggs 50/50... everyone wins.

 

[Benton1576]

Wow, I go out of town on business for a few days and sh*t blows up! lol.

Mitsios are my focus area right now, so this topic interests me quite a bit.

I stand by what I wrote in a previous thread that heavy blue barring is a bad sign if you have a Mitsio. I have seen quite a few WC Mitsios both here in the US and via my friends in Germany and the UK. Not a single one of them has blue barring... just saying...
Chameleon Nation posted a cool video that may or may not show a blue-barred Mitsio and I accept that my views may not be correct (and either way, it was a cool video and thanks for posting it), but in my opinion, and without placing blame, you guys have every right to be skeptical of the bloodlines based on what I've seen.

I own one male from the import shipment that's being discussed. He's at least mostly Mitsio (as he turns yellow at night and has the normal Mitsio characteristics). He has a lot of red-barring though (which doesn't really mean much), but based off of what I'm reading here, I don't think it's worth the risk of me breeding him (unless I decide to literally try a Faly/Mitsio cross, lol). He's still a cool chameleon though and he is going to live out a good life either way.

I have several wild-caught males who look every bit the Mitsio though and I have no reason whatsoever to believe they are impure.
I have one W/C female who is definitely pure Mitsio (and she's gravid... clutch on the way with one of my WC males).
I have one W/C female who is likely pure Mitsio... I'll know better when the eggs hatch and they grow up (I don't fully trust the importer of this one, although I don't have a reason not to trust them either).

I also have a CB female from bloodlines being discussed here.

Does anyone else in the USA have Mitsio bloodlines not affected by this discussion? If so, I propose that those of us who have Mitsios get together and share in some breeding projects. I did a similar project earlier this year and we just split the eggs 50/50... everyone wins.

There you have it guys, no need to import when you have pure Mitsio right on your doorstep.

I would be interested to see your Mitsio Undertow11 if you wouldnt mind posting them here, or a link to some pics. I love the adult colouration of them, especially WC! Also, The red barring you describe is perfectly acceptable on Mitsio in moderation. The biggest givaway with them is their white lips with red lipstick as i like to call it. Its very prominent on pure mitsio, and barely noticable if they are not pure.

 

[Undertow11]

There you have it guys, no need to import when you have pure Mitsio right on your doorstep.

I would be interested to see your Mitsio Undertow11 if you wouldnt mind posting them here, or a link to some pics. I love the adult colouration of them, especially WC! Also, The red barring you describe is perfectly acceptable on Mitsio in moderation. The biggest givaway with them is their white lips with red lipstick as i like to call it. Its very prominent on pure mitsio, and barely noticable if they are not pure.

I have a few pics in two albums on my profile (one called "Mitsios" and one called "Pete the Nosy Mitsio").
The only one I don't have pics posted of yet is the one I received via the shipment in question. I'm pretty lazy about taking pics of my chams, but I'll try to post a few of my male from the shipment later tonight/tomorrow.

 

[Benton1576]

I have a few pics in two albums on my profile (one called "Mitsios" and one called "Pete the Nosy Mitsio").
The only one I don't have pics posted of yet is the one I received via the shipment in question. I'm pretty lazy about taking pics of my chams, but I'll try to post a few of my male from the shipment later tonight/tomorrow.

Your the owner of Pete!!! He is the most amazing Mitsio I have seen. I have my fingers crossed that mine turns out even just half as nice as him.

 

[Brad]

Please, no commercial posts.

Let's keep the discussion to the photos and what to expect of the locale. If this becomes a boi thread then it will be removed promptly.

 

[Captive Creations]

I have a few pics in two albums on my profile (one called "Mitsios" and one called "Pete the Nosy Mitsio").
The only one I don't have pics posted of yet is the one I received via the shipment in question. I'm pretty lazy about taking pics of my chams, but I'll try to post a few of my male from the shipment later tonight/tomorrow.

Wow those mitsio's are beautiful. just stunning.



To the OP I have a female from this line aswell so I have been following this . I am glad you started this thread. Thanks

 

[Undertow11]

Here is a pic of Little Paul Scholes, my male from the shipment (brother to the others that have been posted), rummaging for worms at the bottom of his enclosure...

There are days when he looks very Mitsio and days when he looks very Ambilobe. He doesn't fire up blue, but he can go purple-barred and he certainly has a strong red component, though the red doesn't concern me. I've privately had some doubts about his purity since I received him, but either way, it's not his fault and he's a pretty chameleon regardless... though he cost much more than an Ambilobe or a cross ever should and I'm not sure I can breed him now in good faith as a Mitsio...

I'll try to post a sleeping pic later as well.

 

[robmd1]

Here is a pic of Little Paul Scholes, my male from the shipment (brother to the others that have been posted), rummaging for worms at the bottom of his enclosure...

There are days when he looks very Mitsio and days when he looks very Ambilobe. He doesn't fire up blue, but he can go purple-barred and he certainly has a strong red component, though the red doesn't concern me. I've privately had some doubts about his purity since I received him, but either way, it's not his fault and he's a pretty chameleon regardless... though he cost much more than an Ambilobe or a cross ever should and I'm not sure I can breed him now in good faith as a Mitsio...

I'll try to post a sleeping pic later as well.

lol hes a superworm junkie still huh...

 

[JackP308]

^^^ Him and Robs both show mitsio traits to me, but I can see what id say is ambilobe in yours and rangers more.

I almost picked up some WCs few months back but Im always so skeptical on the females which scares me away from the buy.





"I have one W/C female who is definitely pure Mitsio (and she's gravid... clutch on the way with one of my WC males).
I have one W/C female who is likely pure Mitsio... I'll know better when the eggs hatch and they grow up (I don't fully trust the importer of this one, although I don't have a reason not to trust them either)."


So have you hatched and raised clutches from your WC that you say is definatley Mitsio. If so post some pictures please of them older. Thanks

 

[Benton1576]

Here is a pic of Little Paul Scholes, my male from the shipment (brother to the others that have been posted), rummaging for worms at the bottom of his enclosure...

There are days when he looks very Mitsio and days when he looks very Ambilobe. He doesn't fire up blue, but he can go purple-barred and he certainly has a strong red component, though the red doesn't concern me. I've privately had some doubts about his purity since I received him, but either way, it's not his fault and he's a pretty chameleon regardless... though he cost much more than an Ambilobe or a cross ever should and I'm not sure I can breed him now in good faith as a Mitsio...

I'll try to post a sleeping pic later as well.

Its strange that he looks so much different from the others posted. He actually does look very Mitsio on that pic, I see no Ambilobe in him. Sometimes Mitsio do have red barring, its something that seems to appear over generations of Mitsio from WC. Theres a thread about it here. It is possible there was a rogue female in there that could have caused the change, but if there wasnt it is very good observation and would explain why WC differ in appearence to a lot of CB out there.

Heres the thread: https://www.chameleonforums.com/mitsio-lines-69517/?highlight=mitsio+generation

 

[Chameleon Nation]

The Mufasa and Lexus clutch produced normal looking mitsio. The Murcie and Sonya clutch that was bread at Screameleons is where I think the problem started. Sonya was WC, three weeks after arriving she laid 21 eggs. I know Murcie was Mitsio so Sonya must have been Ambi or something. I have no more left, no babies in the incubator either. We are trying to get some more in. We will start the locale up again with all CB animals, rather than the odd WC female here and there.

I paid almost $12,000 for two shipments only to get a rogue female that may not have been mitsio and a couple others that have been questioned aswell. Definitely am trying a new source so hopefully this does not happen again.

Drew

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Benton............that post you linked to is describing the chameleons that had the rogue female in the mix (as discussed here) and therefore the entire point made there is completely moot. Just want to make that clear for anyone else who reads this thread, which is a bit more accurate as to what really happened.

For those interested, here are a few pics I took today of my two holdbacks to compare to yours...they are supposed to be Murcie and GT3 lines........ Beautiful beautiful chams either way. And like I said, nicer than any pure Ambilobes IMO. I think Mitsio/Ambilobe could be the new Nosy Be/Ambilobe.

Drew goodluck with your new source!!!!! This time I'll wait a few years, but I'd still like some 'real' Mitsio eventually.

 

[Benton1576]

Benton............that post you linked to is describing the chameleons that had the rogue female in the mix (as discussed here) and therefore the entire point made there is completely moot.

Erm.....ok. My apoligies for posting inaccurate information about the hard work done by drew observing his Mitsio lines. Im sure they werent all the wrong females, especially the F1 generation that was bred back to the grandsires (original WC) to produce completely different coloured barring. No im sure that if you breed the F1 back to a different line of WC, then they are gonna be Mitsio, but hey, what do I know?

 

[ZuggieTheCham]

Benton............that post you linked to is describing the chameleons that had the rogue female in the mix (as discussed here) and therefore the entire point made there is completely moot. Just want to make that clear for anyone else who reads this thread, which is a bit more accurate as to what really happened.

For those interested, here are a few pics I took today of my two holdbacks to compare to yours...they are supposed to be Murcie and GT3 lines........ Beautiful beautiful chams either way. And like I said, nicer than any pure Ambilobes IMO. I think Mitsio/Ambilobe could be the new Nosy Be/Ambilobe.

Drew goodluck with your new source!!!!! This time I'll wait a few years, but I'd still like some 'real' Mitsio eventually.

WOW!!! he is absolutly sick!!! Got some awsome colors going thru him! If he is a cross i want one! I think mine could b a cross ambilobie with a bit of faly not too sure id b glad i he was tbh cant wait to see how my little man turns out

 

[creddjobs]

Nice looking guy Texas ranger. My ambilobe shows some of those same colors in that first set of pics.

 

[Black Panther]

WOW!!! he is absolutly sick!!! Got some awsome colors going thru him! If he is a cross i want one! I think mine could b a cross ambilobie with a bit of faly not too sure id b glad i he was tbh cant wait to see how my little man turns out

Zuggie looks more Ambilobe cross Nosy Be than any Nosy Faly. JMO

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Benton, not true (and I'm not meaning to be rude, I see the point you're trying to make).

Drew just said in his last post that Sonya was a WC bred to Murcie (@Screameleons), so the problem wasn't even the F1, it was the F. The F1 really messed things up though because Drew kept a lot of the females of that clutch which means there are likely as many or more F1 and F2 mixes than pure Mitsio out there.....That's why this is such a big deal, it affects a lot of cham owners who think they have 1st & 2nd generation Mitsio.....this will take years to clear up for all the people who bought from the second line of breeders who haven't read this thread....and myself and others here.....

1st and 2nd generations shouldn't have this 'whodunnit' type of discussion.... that usually happens 4,5,6 generations down the line when people are buying 'pures' from pet stores and craigslist.

You're right though, at least the Mufasa/Lexus match did produce Mitsios....but those aren't the ones being discussed here......the barring/coloring can't be justified through hard work taking pictures and saying it's diet and environment.

 

[Benton1576]

Benton, not true (and I'm not meaning to be rude, I see the point you're trying to make).

Drew just said in his last post that Sonya was a WC bred to Murcie (@Screameleons), so the problem wasn't even the F1, it was the F. The F1 really messed things up though because Drew kept a lot of the females of that clutch which means there are likely as many or more F1 and F2 mixes than pure Mitsio out there.....That's why this is such a big deal, it affects a lot of cham owners who think they have 1st & 2nd generation Mitsio.....this will take years to clear up for all the people who bought from the second line of breeders who haven't read this thread....and myself and others here.....

1st and 2nd generations shouldn't have this 'whodunnit' type of discussion.... that usually happens 4,5,6 generations down the line when people are buying 'pures' from pet stores and craigslist.

You're right though, at least the Mufasa/Lexus match did produce Mitsios....but those aren't the ones being discussed here......the barring/coloring can't be justified through hard work taking pictures and saying it's diet and environment.

Ah, I see your point. This thread is confusing me! lol. The problem isnt going to go away anytime soon as I bet theres many out there with eggs incubating that are going to be sold as Mitsio, but possibly be a mix thus further putting the Mitsio line into question. Best thing to do IMO is get some garaunteed Mitsio and start over which I think Drew is in the process of doing.

P.S, that Ambilobe/Mitsio mix you posted is insane, in a good way, and should definately be put on a plane heading towards my house! lol

 

[Cainschams]

It's not a coincidence when this same thread was made not so long ago about the Nosy Faly having Nosy Be in them.

Couldnt agree more. Lots of people will say anything and make up anything to fetch a higher price out of their panthers. I dont see the difference between Ambanjas and blue diamonds besides the name. Then we have the Ampiskana (sp?). Radiant Reptiles "new local" etc etc etc. Its funny that its only in this one species, chameleon wise and even funnier when "Im not in it for the money" comes up. Id still like to know how the exporter in that other thread can tell which ones are crossed and which ones are pure. As I said, even crosses can look pure. Look at Robs Mitsio. It looks pure, to me at least, and did to lots of other people yet this one from the same clutch looks like an Ambilobe or cross. Perfect example. Just another case of here we go again

 

[Echoezra]

So Just to be clear, as I was only able to read the last few pages of this thread so far (rushing off to work) but we're saying the problems are showing with the Murcie & Sonya lines, but the Mufasa & Lexus lines seem to be ok?
Just concerned because Zaphod is a Mufasa/Lexus son.
Everybody has always said he has good colouring, although he did go through a red-barred stage at just under a year, and now sometimes when he gets really angry he's all yellow but then his previously/usually green bars are often now a dark inky blue.
Not even remotely this ambilobe look, mind you, but just for those with other lines that may be panicking, there are colour variations and phases and stages even in a classic-looking mitsio, is all I'm saying.