I want your opinion

[Brad Ramsey]

Definitively, all chameleons will do well and thrive in the right environment if never held.

-Brad

 

[viaje]

I'd like to add something that I'm surprised hasn't come up.

You see often on here, people posting "my chams pacing by the door of the cage" or "scratching at the front" and everyone only says one thing- that they need a bigger cage.
You've decided that your cham is eager to be on your hand. Why does no one assume that the chameleon could just see the hand as an escape from an inappropriate cage?
QUOTE]

I have him in a very large, well planted cage that meets all the requirements that i have seen on any major breeders website(FLchams, Kammerflage Kreations....). If my cage is "an inappropriate cage" then so is yours because im sure you have met all of the same requirements that i have. Like i said i have another cham in the same conditions that does not come to me so I leave him alone. My whole reason in posting on this thread was to point out that every cham seems to be different so people shouldnt be so definitive in telling others that they should never handle their chameleons or they will die.

I absolutely did not single you out. I was suggesting one thing that could explain this, and I'm sure this would apply to someone on this site. but I was just giving everyone something to think about.

 

[jhappe]

Definitively, all chameleons will do well and thrive in the right environment if never held.

-Brad

True, but you cannot definitively say that all chameleons that are handled DO NOT thrive and do well.

 

[SYeretzian]

I had a Europeon or common chameleon in Cairo when i was 6 years old. Most the time he was left on his tree on a balcony. When we first purchased him he would puff and bite if are hands went anywhere near him but after hand feeding a few times and a pippet for water everyday he was relaxed around people, he would climb on your hand to eat and sometimes climb down off his tree and I had to pick him up to put him back on.

The panther I had did not like being handled at all even for a second, if he didnt bite he would try to jump off my hand or whatever branch he was on. I personally dont think any reptile enjoys being held, some tolerate it but dont enjoy it.

 

[Chameleon24]

Simple answer...we don't know. Only the chameleon knows whether or not it likes interaction. They all have different personalities so I guess you just go with what your cham likes, but if it doesn't like handling (which most don't) then stay away. I don't think there's anything wrong with being over-cautious with a pet. Just shows you want to do the best for it. I wouldn't call any of the replies on here "dramatic"...

hey great answer! im with you 100%!!

 

[Chameleon24]

Sorry to say... but there isn't....

We just need to be positive and give constructive advice rather than a beat down. People who have no rep, have no rep for a reason LOL

More great advice

 

[Chameleon24]

True, but you cannot definitively say that all chameleons that are handled DO NOT thrive and do well.

i agree, i have one who wants nothing to do with me so i leave him alone. but i also have one that i CAN NOT get to fire up. he is so calm its amazing actaully every now and then i hold him maybe only once a month maybe twice. but i see no difference between the two, they are both as healthy as can be.

 

[Titan]

I had a large male Panther once, awhile back. It was a very awsome ambanja.
Well if, and when I would sit down anywhere in the living room the Cham named "Titan" would climb down out of his tree, come clear across the floor, climb my pantleg and sit on my lap. Now that was COOL! and my first Cham ever. He Just always wanted to be by me! The bad News is I lost him to my Ex-Wife in our divorce. As I got to keep our other pretty cool Nosy Be male.
Just figured I share such and awsome Chameleon with ya.

 

[laurie]

We have sort of gotten off the point, which I think, is that Turtle should not buy a chameleon with the hope or expection that he can have it play with him. Chams don't really play with people, people play with chams and that is a whole different think. There that is my lsat 2 cents worth on the subject, except I personally hope turtle does not buy a cham.

 

[Chameleon24]

I had a large male Panther once, awhile back. It was a very awsome ambanja.
Well if, and when I would sit down anywhere in the living room the Cham named "Titan" would climb down out of his tree, come clear across the floor, climb my pantleg and sit on my lap. Now that was COOL! and my first Cham ever. He Just always wanted to be by me! The bad News is I lost him to my Ex-Wife in our divorce. As I got to keep our other pretty cool Nosy Be male.
Just figured I share such and awsome Chameleon with ya.

Thats an awesome story! thanks for sharing, but sorry to hear about your ex-wife taking him.

 

[summoner12]

We have sort of gotten off the point, which I think, is that Turtle should not buy a chameleon with the hope or expection that he can have it play with him. Chams don't really play with people, people play with chams and that is a whole different think. There that is my lsat 2 cents worth on the subject, except I personally hope turtle does not buy a cham.

I agree, if turtle wants to buy a cham thinking it is a toy, he shouldn't buy a chameleon.

One time I was at LLL Reptiles, a mom and her two kids were looking at getting a snake or a chameleon. As I listened in frustration and annoyance (two kids arguing and justifying their animal choice) I just jumped into the debate..... I said "so your looking into getting an animal? Have you guys ever had a reptile before?". The mom looked at me kinda funny since I didn't work there..... and replied "no we haven't..." and I was like "well you guys should REALLY check out the bearded dragons! They don't mind to be handled at ALL and are very neat and EEEEEAAAASSSSSSY for first time reptile keepers" I showed them the cages of beardies and they were like "OH WOW look at those guys!". As I was shopping around I saw them holding one and both kids were in love.

I felt I had done the chameleon world a service hehehehe.

 

[chaMELeon012409]

I just got a veiled about a week ago, and have quickly learned that she likes it MUCH more in her enclosure rather than in my hands. When I just try to take her out for a moment to roam free, she usually looks around, then moves straight to her cage, then chills on a branch. I could leave the door open all day and would not have a fear of her leaving the secure feeling of home.

 

[summoner12]

I just got a veiled about a week ago, and have quickly learned that she likes it MUCH more in her enclosure rather than in my hands. When I just try to take her out for a moment to roam free, she usually looks around, then moves straight to her cage, then chills on a branch. I could leave the door open all day and would not have a fear of her leaving the secure feeling of home.

"there's no place like home, there's no place like home"

 

[OntarioLizardman]

How do you know that a chameleon that eagerly climbs onto a persons hand(they seem to clearly understand that it isnt a threat) doesnt enjoy getting out of the cage and getting a different view other than the mini enviroment you have made? My panther always goes for my hand when I stick it in his cage and I hold him for a bit and usually take him to a tree in the front yard if the weather is right. Now my veiled hates to be handled and I can see that my presence stresses him so I keep my interaction with him to a minimum. If the chameleon calmly comes to you and is relaxed than I dont see the problem, but if it is clear(chameleons can show emotion like no other animal on earth) that they are frightened and upset you should leave them alone. The one guy said his friends who was handled all the time lived for 6 1/2 years... I could be wrong but I think that is a pretty long time. People shouldnt be so dramatic about it, like "Put it high up in it's cage and leave it alone or it will die. K thnx."

i have to say that i agree with most of this

 

[summoner12]

i have to say that i agree with most of this

The issue here is that these animals live a solitaire life.... To make the habitat as real as it can be you should keep human interaction to a minimum.

 

[jojackson]

To make the habitat as real as it can be you should keep human interaction to a minimum.

Which presents a bit of a problem dosent it. To 'make it real' is pretty much opposed to the whole concept of captivity in the first place. Captivity is in no way 'natural'. Its a matter of balance (in all things including handling), Some folk go overboard in a futile attempt to 'perfectly' recreate a natural habitat and enviroment, some go to other extreme (bare cage, basic life nessesitys).

Most of us find compromise around the middle, this includes human interaction to some degree, even if its just cage cleaning, handfeeding etc.
Life, and certainly reptiles are not as easily 'pidgeonholed' as we would like, whilst certain species are classified 'look-dont-touch', chams, geckos etc, there will always be plenty of exceptions to the 'rule', nature throws bogeys!

If someones cham seems to love interaction, perhaps nobody told it 'they dont like it' !

 

[summoner12]

If someones cham seems to love interaction, perhaps nobody told it 'they dont like it' !

Or your making the wrong assumption about the chameleon's psych.

 

[Jam]

Just to throw this out there (and add more to the already burning fire).

I had to handle my veiled hermie for two extended periods of time... one when he had MBD and broke all four legs ... and when he had a really bad kidney infection. He seemed to cope with the MBD period of time ok ... I'm sure it was not enjoyable for him, but I do think he realized that he needed help and we were giving it ... we knew he was feeling better when he started hissing at us again (we don't call him hissy hermie for nothing!).

BUT the kidney infection really messed him up mentally. he had to get injections multiple times a day for over a week. If he even SEES me by his cage he will dive off his branch head first to the bottom (literally throws himself off). So I don't handle him at all anymore (except to put him back in his cage at night if he has been free ranging and doesnt return on his own ... so maybe once a month).

Handling him everyday made him miserable and the effects were lasting. overall I think that he is a much unhappier cham even though it's been about 6 months since his kidney problem. I acknowledge the effect it has had and at the time felt like I had no choice bc the other option was probably death. I would like to think that his life now is better than death.

It didn't happen overnight ... the effect added up. I'm not saying to NEVER handle your cham (it can be hard to clean their cages when they are in there ... it would make going to the vet impossible ... and some personalities might tolerate it more than others) but i wish i had never had to.

 

[summoner12]

Just to throw this out there (and add more to the already burning fire).

I had to handle my veiled hermie for two extended periods of time... one when he had MBD and broke all four legs ... and when he had a really bad kidney infection. He seemed to cope with the MBD period of time ok ... I'm sure it was not enjoyable for him, but I do think he realized that he needed help and we were giving it ... we knew he was feeling better when he started hissing at us again (we don't call him hissy hermie for nothing!).

BUT the kidney infection really messed him up mentally. he had to get injections multiple times a day for over a week. If he even SEES me by his cage he will dive off his branch head first to the bottom (literally throws himself off). So I don't handle him at all anymore (except to put him back in his cage at night if he has been free ranging and doesnt return on his own ... so maybe once a month).

Handling him everyday made him miserable and the effects were lasting. overall I think that he is a much unhappier cham even though it's been about 6 months since his kidney problem. I acknowledge the effect it has had and at the time felt like I had no choice bc the other option was probably death. I would like to think that his life now is better than death.

It didn't happen overnight ... the effect added up. I'm not saying to NEVER handle your cham (it can be hard to clean their cages when they are in there ... it would make going to the vet impossible ... and some personalities might tolerate it more than others) but i wish i had never had to.

That is a good observation. There is a girl who comes to the local meetings who shares your observation. The chameleon becoming unhappy with their keeping when being handled more in a stressful situation.

I don't think we should NEVER handle our chams. I just really think it should be left for a purpose, not to hang out. Watching TV in a dark room with your cham and saying 'oh he just hangs out and sleeps' is retarded because of COURSE he sleeps, its dark.

My veileds used to get natural sunlight everyday after I got home from work (about 2:45pm) for a few months. Each day I would get home, open the cage and offer a stick to them and out they would come. The extent of handling was to transport from cage to outdoor tree. It took me a long time to get them to except my offer each day. Now because I have a changed work schedule and can't give them the natural light they don't come when I offer them a stick. I think they realize the change and have no interest. My other explanation is that they are older, and we moved to a new apt. and the surroundings are new and unfamiliar.... and they may not want to venture out of the cage.

 

[jhappe]

The issue here is that these animals live a solitaire life.... To make the habitat as real as it can be you should keep human interaction to a minimum.

I think that this issue with this whole topic is the health of handled chameleons vs not handled and I personally havent seen any negative results, nor have i seen anyone else report any. There are plenty of animals that are handled in captivity, that in their natural habitat would lead solitary lives, and show no suffering from it, especially captive born (exposed to humans their whole lives). I thinks its possible that the chameleons just become used to their human owners in certain situations.