Identification of my Panther

[Darc777]

I'm trying to identify this species of Panther chameleon. Can anyone help? I believe it is a Mitsio but I'm not certain.

 

[Darc777]

Bump. Anyone know the locale?

 

[chameleonkev]

No it's not a mitsio, what is he like fired up? He may be a cross local

 

[Darc777]

When he flares up a lot he gets a lot of yellow on his underbelly and the blue stripes on the side get much more blue. There's some small red in there too.

 

[chameleonkev]

This is a hard one, I'm normally quite good at local I'd, it must be hard as no one else had replayed. With the colours I see and you say come when fired up there could be a little mitsio in there. I do think he has ambilobe in him at a geuss I would say a cross of the two but I really Carnt be sure sorry. Maybe other people will chime in soon for you

 

[Olimpia]

Perhaps a young Sambava? I've never owned one but I remember seeing several members' Sambavas go through a blue and green phase at about a year (or a little younger) and this seems to be fairly normal for some Sambavas. Their yellows and reds take a while to come in, apparently. But, of course, this guess is based on the assumption that he's not 2-3 years old, but he doesn't look like he is.

So I think that my best educated reply is a Sambava, at least partly.

Edit - Like Carol's Romeo, for example: https://www.chameleonforums.com/mem...-romeo-rip-my-buddy-picture8218-p1000654.html

 

[pssh]

I don't know about sambava. The U-bar looks odd to me. I can't quite explain it, but it kind of has a strange shape/width. It also has a really rounded and tall casque that I don't recall ever seeing on a sambava (it looks more like an ambanja to me.) The blue color is also one I can't recall seeing on a sambava, even the younger ones that go through a blue phase. The blue color reminds me of several crosses that I have seen.

I don't think I would call it any particular locale that I can think of. My educated guess would be a cross of some sort, though I suppose it could end up looking completely different and identifiable when it gets older (I am assuming it is a juvenile from the way it looks.)

 

[Dr O]

silly people. it's one of Pixel and Piggy's. so that makes him Ambi with the slight possibility of some Mitsio in there. I've got enough ads running that everyone can see that almost all of the males have a perfect Y, but this one doesn't. the OP bought him from me at the last Repticon. a good lesson for all of us when trying to ID, since this time we have the answer and most times we don't.

all photos of lineages can be seen through the following links from this ad snippet—"These are hatchlings from Pixel and Mrs. Piggy. Pixel, who is now almost five years old is magnificent in his own right and has changed colors throughout his life. He was sold to me as a red-bar Ambilobe from a reputable breeder, but I and others have questioned whether he may not have some Nosy Mitsio in his bloodline. Chronological photos and a discussion surrounding his heritage can be found here. Mrs. Piggy was Pixel’s first mistress and has some extraordinary colors in her bloodline."——working links at https://www.chameleonforums.com/dr-o-s-tie-dyed-chameleons-now-ready-100380/


it's a chameleons world, we're just living in it.

o—

 

[chameleonkev]

Silly? Seems to me I was completely right with what I said

 

[Dr O]

Silly? Seems to me I was completely right with what I said

You're right, you were pretty much dead on.

 

[pssh]

Well there you go. It just goes to show that it can be really difficult to identify panther locales sometimes, especially when they are juveniles.

I'm just wondering why they needed the locale IDed?

 

[Olimpia]

What trickery! That weird U bar made it hard, otherwise I would have just said Ambi.

And do you not trust Dr. O's records? Because they're pretty good. He knows where his chameleons come from way better than we do, so trust what he tells you regarding their locale.

 

[Darc777]

I do trust Dr. O very well, I just thought I'd ask the forum to see what you all would say rather than bug him about it. But I never got a solid answer so eventually just asked him.

 

[Dr O]

Well there you go. It just goes to show that it can be really difficult to identify panther locales sometimes, especially when they are juveniles.

I'm just wondering why they needed the locale IDed?

I absolutely agree, that's why I had said it was a good lesson since this time we have the answers when we usually don't, and it really shows how misleading the importance of a certain bar shape, eye ridge, color or whatever may be. heck, that takes it all the way back to Pixel since the breeder told me Ambi but folks love to second-guess him for better or worse.

I dunno why the id. Olimpia was there and can vouch that I had 3 ring binders all over with printed photos and text of the lineages as far back as I could go. the OP is a good guy, truly, however from speaking with him that day it was evident that his cham knowledge base was a bit outdated, sort of like the thinking was 15 years ago. but he's been doing a great job contacting me about any questions, and I believe he has been enjoying the forums more and more. the day he bought he had come back once or twice, we spoke at length a few times and he had all these cute girls with him. so I wouldn't blame him at all for not remembering 100% of everything I babbled about!! I think we pretended that he was a senior member or something so I was able to drop the price a bit. perfectly good cham, just wasn't as socialized as most of the others yet. but he has been working on that as well with some tips from me, and I do believe having some good success in just a few short weeks.

 

[Dr O]

What trickery! That weird U bar made it hard, otherwise I would have just said Ambi.

ha!! and odds are that you probably even handled him that weekend!!

like I said, ID'ing can be so off (except for chameleonkev!). fun to guess and strain the mental faculties looking for locality traits, but without a breeders accurate records we've usually got squat IMO.

 

[Dr O]

and btw Darc, I think he looks great. certainly has grown and solidified his colors since I last saw him. does his belly tend to yellow when he sleeps? virtually all of his male sibs have been doing that, no matter their level of green-ness.

 

[Darc777]

Looking over at him right now his belly is a full yellow and his blue bars are shining. He always sleeps at a lime green with that coloration, in exactly the same spot on a branch. He will even go to that same spot and stare at me all cuddled up to the branch until I go turn the light off. Then when I turn the lights off he's out like a light in a few seconds. Adorable little guy.

 

[Dr O]

very nice. sounds like perfectly normal panther behavior! they tend to stick to the same sleeping spots, particularly at this age.

well, I'm going to suggest that we end this thread in the ID forum since its the only forum I've been to so far that gives me warnings before I post!! hope to see many more photos and the like elsewhere, though!