Ill chameleon - yellow gums?

T

Trinacham

New Member
My Sambava Panther Calvin (2 years) has seen the vet 3 times now but I really don't think he is gonna live. He has improved in that he is starting to go colourful again and is not so lethargic but his black legs still do not work and he won't eat (I have some prescribed food for him and I've also been force feeding him locusts. My question is... is it normal for the inside of the mouth to be yellow. The vet asked me if he was usually that colour but I didn't know. The vet reckons he is jaundice. Whatever advice you have to give to me would be great. :)
 
I would not think jaundice because of a yellow mouth. Several chameleons have yellow mouths if Im not wrong, Im not very interested in panther localities so Im not sure about this one. Sorry.
Use google and look for som images, maybe you can find a match and
 
Like dave said my 1yr old male ambilobe has yellow on almost all of the outside of his mouth when mad and in the corners when calm. The inside is also yellow in the orners. How long ago did he stop eating? And does he still drink? I ahd a similar problem with a female of mine about a month back, She was vwery lethargic for three day and was bascially all black, not even and orange liek gravid colors. She hadn't eaten in 5 days when normally she would eat at will whenever i wanted to feed her. She did drink though. My vet thats out here in Milan told me that her last meal had not passed and she was drinking alot of water to pass it. I got lucky though and he used a tube of water to give her a tube with mildly fast flowing water into her mouth so she could drink alot more than from a dripper, 30 mins later(while i was admiring his dart frog collection and letting ehr be alone in one of his extra cages) she passed a giant poo and got back all of her color withing minutes. Now i keep her hydrated alot more.
 
You said..."his black legs still do not work and he won't eat"...what did the vet say about this?

What supplements are you using (specifically) and how often for each please?
Do you have a substrate? Is he pooping? What is the basking temperature?
Did the changes in his health happen with changes to his cage>

You said you have some prescribed food for him and I've also been force feeding him locusts"...what's the prescribed food?

You said..."is it normal for the inside of the mouth to be yellow. The vet asked me if he was usually that colour but I didn't know. The vet reckons he is jaundice."...many of the panther morphs have a yellow mouth so IMHO its no way to determine that a chameleon has jaundice.
 
Does his mouth look like this?

IMG_8528.jpg


:D
 
:p that photo is brilliant! His mouth definitely is normal then (apart from the rot). Our next vet visit isn't until next week but I'm going to clear that up. Sort of feel like he should have known that but I guess there are some things that vets get wrong. He stopped eating a month to a couple of months ago now. I was actually on holiday and the person he was with could only get him to eat morios (which are obviously very fatty so that's not good), he wouldn't eat his locusts. He'd already stopped eating crickets and waxworms ages ago, I've no idea why he stopped eating those and carried on eating locusts and morios. Now it's nothing he's eating by himself. It was suggested to me that he got stressed by having someone else feed him. If that is the case then I don't see how I'm going to have another holiday for 3+ years! :rolleyes: I think this actually could be the case because he wouldn't eat when my sister was looking after him months ago.

OldSkoolxReasons, no both food and water I have to force down him now. :(

Chamgels of Avalon, the vet said it is likely that he fell and hurt his back, which is why his legs and tail are not strong. He says back problems take a long time to recover. His cage is very high (6 ft) so I can see how a fall could do a lot of damage. He's in a smaller cage now until he gets his strength back. He was dehydrated when I first took him to the vet so I think he probably fell as a result of being dehydrated and weak. He is no longer dehydrated.

He gets Calcium supplement and another vitamin supplement (not sure now, just ran out of the bottle and it's in the bin!). Both were sold to me when I bought the chameleon (from his breeder) so I think they are the correct ones. Every source says something different but I tend to dust every 3-4 days? If you could recommend a better routine for dusting (and what to dust) that would be great.

No substrate. Yes he's pooping. When he was on the vets table the other day the urate was orange yet his poop was really liquid-y! It was like he had just passed liquid urine.

Not sure of the basking temp, will get back to you with that. No I'd made no changes to his cage. This was the food www.epinions.com/review/Hill_s_Scie...for_Cats_24X_5_5_OZ_case/content_469416447620
 
Trinacham-do you have a UVB light? The cage looked like it was outside on one picture, and I see you also take him outside, but I was wondering how much UVB he is getting, and how much D3 are in the supplements you have. It is important to know the brands and what is in them. Most people dust with calcium with no D3 5-6 times weekly, so his symptoms could certainly be MBD. It sounds like your Vet is not very knowledgeable about chams. Did he give a calcium shot? Xrays to determine if there is an injury? If he has mouth rot that could cause him not to eat and that is something I would not let go for even a day, despite treatment I recently lost a Panther to mouth rot. I am hoping the best for your beautiful guy!

Also that link is to cat food-do not feed cat food! Protein will damage his kidneys. It would be better to try to get him to eat whole bugs or make bug juice by squishing up bugs to feed to him.
 
Yep I have a UVB light. The cage was outside, the chameleon wasn't. I don't take him outside unless it is a scorching hot day (I am in the UK so that's like once a year!). I have just ran out of the tub of vitamin supplements and I can't find the same tub anywhere so I'll be changing that anyway. If someone could advise me which to buy that would help. The tub of Calcium I have doesn't have D3 (this one http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=72&products_id=1047 )

I don't think it really sounds like MDB. I'll try to show you a vid of him if I can get hold of my dad's camera. His back legs can grip really tight that it hurts me. Would he be able to do that? His legs can't find the branch easy either, they sort of go underneath his body. He walks on the outside of his ankles also, his feet turn inwards. The vet I take him to is a herps vet, the nearest one I could find (a half hour drive away). He gave him a few shots but I'm not sure what they were. He said he gave him antibiotics and also water because he was dehydrated. No X-ray. No worries, the cat food is not being fed anymore, I can get live bugs down him so no need. Just wish he would shoot his tongue out for them instead of being force fed.

Thanks for the advice.
 
What you just posted sounds alot like MBD. WHen did you last change the bulb? I am not sure about the calcium-it is not offered here in the states, but most people use a calcium with no D3 5-6 times weekly, one with D3 1-2X monthly, and a mutl-vit mineral suuplement once monthly for adults. I would see if the Vet would give him a calcium booster-it very well may help in recovery.
 
You said..."His back legs can grip really tight that it hurts me. Would he be able to do that?"..gripping has to do with muscles. Calcium imbalance would be affecting the bone strength not likely the grip.

You said..."His legs can't find the branch easy either, they sort of go underneath his body"..this sounds like a calcium issue to me.
 
Trinacham said:
...When he was on the vets table the other day the urate was orange yet his poop was really liquid-y! It was like he had just passed liquid urine...
Click to expand...
Howdy Katrina,

Sometimes Superworms (Morio), if used extensively (solely?) as a feeder, can cause an orange tint to urates. I suspect that the orange coloring that you are describing may be related to poor kidney function or even the onset of kidney failure. If it only occurs once in a while, that's one thing, but in combination with his current decline in health, the orange urates, especially if you see lots of crystals in it, it might just be kidney failure :(. Let's hope that it's something else and that he recovers.

If you can supply more about his husbandry history over the years since you acquired him, that might shed some light on what the underlying cause might be. That long-term info in combination with the https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ info might show something.
 
No chance its impacted? You dont want to feeding it anything if thats a possibility.
if its pooping regularly its probly not though, but forcefeeding is horrendously stressful.
Try to offer something else, prefrably with lots of moisture content.
 
Last edited:
Yes I did think that he must be getting stressed out, but I don't want him to starve to death, so what else can I do. :(

We have Komodo cricket dust powder. So do I need another tub with Calcium and D3 (if so can I get Zoo Med Reptivite?), and then what other tub do I need? Please reply ASAP as we've run out of dust and I need to order it today!

Should I buy these two tubs? http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/reptiles/food/vitamins_minerals/85602#more
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3639&currency=GBP
 
Trinacham, Reptivite is a vitamin and mineral supplement--it isn't just a calcium supplement.
When people suggest calcium with D3, they mean a calcium supplement with D3 without any other vitamins or minerals in it (especially no phosphorus).
Certainly Reptivite is a good vitamin supplement to use a couple of times per month.
Rep-cal is the most frequently recommended calcium supplement though finding it in the UK may be more difficult.
There is what appears to be a comparable product; Zoo Med Repti Calcium and they offer both with or without D3--as well as selling Reptivite.

Here is a link to a UK online source, though I have not used them, as I'm in the USA.
http://www.petreptilehouse.co.uk/prods/pc21.html

Hope this helps you.
 
Thanks.

Just to update, Calvin went back to the vet yesterday and I told him what you guys suggested. He says he knows chameleons can have yellow mouths but Calvin's was a lot more yellow than normal. And he said Calvin does not have the symptoms of MBD, which is what I thought. He doesn't have any fractures and his jaw is normal.
 
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