Illegal Pet Trade in Thailand

Yeah thats bad....dont get me started....I could rant about it all day.

So many of them end up in Australia being so close. I dont know why people buy them, they turn up in such poor condition, often die & it just encourges more and more illegal trade of such beautiful & endangered creatures.
 
It's amazing how these countries get them because they don't follow international law, but here, where we "know what we're doing", we can't find a way to get them legally and expensively.

I certainly don't want it like it was in the 90's where I'd see dozens of melleri and parsonii come in to a wholesaler's selling for $50 a piece, only to rot away for weeks, unsold, unfed and unwatered.

It's easy to have a degree of envy - but try to think how lucky you are that you dont'see this in pet stores all the time like we used to.

Parsonii were cheap - they were easy to catch, I guess.
 
:( That's a big male Furcifer balteatus in the background, the rest are Parson's. Remember that thread recently from the new owner who didn't know he had Furcifer labordi? Did he ever say where he bought those? I'd be willing to bet it was in Bangkok as well.
 
How sad! I would not think they would end up in Australia sincethey have some crazy strict import laws there. If they are getting there they are being smuggled in then there too. It just sickens me what they do to those animals in those small villages!
 
Most don't make it into Australia, we have pretty good customs...you would see stories on the news about them being smuggled in suitcases, or found in cages on fishing boats that had been stopped in our waters or picked up in customs and most of them near death from the ordeal they have been thru.

Its unfortunate but some will slip thru and will always happen if there is a buck to be made :(
 
What's worse is that Madagascar has been a CITES member country since 1975. Pfft. So much for international law. :(

Trace
 
That photo is a great example of why we're so far behind on captive breeding parsonii in North America and Asia/Europe are so far ahead.
 
Trace said:
What?!?!? There's NO illegal parsonii or other desirable species in North America. Pull the other one.

T
Click to expand...

When he said "captive breeding" I was thinking babies/eggs, rather than the full reproduction process. I should have been more clear. Yes, I believe most of the hatchlings in Europe are the result of smuggling in gravid females, smuggling in eggs, or smuggling in hatchlings themselves. In a nutshell, smuggling is responsible for much of what is called "captive breeding" in Europe. I also believe, although I could be wrong, that C. parsonii is much more readily available in Europe and Asia due to the numbers online whom claim to keep them, the generally lower price there versus domestically, and the reports of WC's of multiple restricted Malagasy species being openly sold at herp expos. One of our members here stated that the market price of Parson's chameleons in Russia is US$250 currently. We've also just seen this report about Parson's being sold in street markets in Bangkok as well as the LaBord's chameleons that were also sold in an Asian street market. If there are more Parson's chameleons in Europe than in the US, yes, I also assume that they are likely to have successful hatchings more often than in places where they are less common.

Although I'm sure they are here, I don't have any first-hand knowledge of any of the other restricted Malagasy species being here so I really can't comment.

I'm not sure what you're asking me to pull. :confused:
 
In South East Asia, Thailand is considered the forefront for Illegal Endangered Pet Trade. The Market in Thailand are loaded with endangered species often will be re-export to other country as CB species. I assume there will be Malaysian and Singaporean who got Chameleon from Thailand too. There is a market for these species, there will be illegal wildlife trade.

When I was in Malaysia, local pet store used to sell turtle and tortoises. I have seen Indian Star Tortoise, Soft Shell Turtle, Sea Turtle sold in pet stores. However, recent visit back to Malaysia, there are no more to be seen. I can assure that if you can pay.....they will get it for you!!

Anyone know the contact of Indonesia Chameleon Breeding Facility? I am thinking about getting some chameleon to breed in Malaysia once I get back for good.
 
Kent67 said:
When he said "captive breeding" I was thinking babies/eggs, rather than the full reproduction process. I should have been more clear. Yes, I believe most of the hatchlings in Europe are the result of smuggling in gravid females, smuggling in eggs, or smuggling in hatchlings themselves. In a nutshell, smuggling is responsible for much of what is called "captive breeding" in Europe. I also believe, although I could be wrong, that C. parsonii is much more readily available in Europe and Asia due to the numbers online whom claim to keep them, the generally lower price there versus domestically, and the reports of WC's of multiple restricted Malagasy species being openly sold at herp expos. One of our members here stated that the market price of Parson's chameleons in Russia is US$250 currently. We've also just seen this report about Parson's being sold in street markets in Bangkok as well as the LaBord's chameleons that were also sold in an Asian street market. If there are more Parson's chameleons in Europe than in the US, yes, I also assume that they are likely to have successful hatchings more often than in places where they are less common.

Although I'm sure they are here, I don't have any first-hand knowledge of any of the other restricted Malagasy species being here so I really can't comment.

I'm not sure what you're asking me to pull. :confused:
Click to expand...

That's exactly the point I was making reference to. I'm pretty confident that a good amount of the parsonii residing in North America came in illegally at some point, but we're less knowledgeable about their origin because they've been passed around so much or we're comfortable believing their captive bred because they were "Captive Bred in Germany".
 
the warlords probably control all of this and anyone that speaks against them probably gets knocked off there is so much money in these animals, more than cocaine and its legal
 
Oh I doubt it's more than cocaine. It's a lot, tough. And, it doesn't take any skill or knowledge to produce, like drugs do.

I wish someone woudl set up a chameleon farm in mainland Africa that bred some of the malagasy species. Josh had told me that Joe B was trying to get that going... He also told me thet he was gettign some stuff worked out wiht the Kenyan Government, so he coudl breed and export kenyan species - and I thought he actually got that going. Any one know for sure? coudl have sworn Nick Mole had some Kenyan jacksonii from Joe B's farm.
 
or money, drug manufacturing which i only compare in the organized crime aspect takes a lot of time and equipment.

so in the end i bet the profit margin per shipment is about the same or close to when you consider the overhead lol
 
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