I'm a sucker for an orphan--rescuing a veiled cham--please help!

[ChuWuti]

A family was referred to me by a mutual friend because they are moving 2000 miles away and needed a new home for their veiled chameleon. I posted their information on our local herp society's forum several months ago, shared it at meetings, etc., but to no avail. They are moving on the 25th, and as their last resort, have asked me to take the chameleon.

Being a sucker for orphans, I agreed to take her, but I am a snake-keeper and have never had a chameleon, so I'm a little nervous. I've spent the past three days researching like crazy to learn as much as I can about the husbandry and feeding of veiled chameleons--read every care sheet I could find online (including those posted in this forum) and ordered books from amazon, which should arrive tomorrow.

However, to add to my sense of inadequacy, on Sunday morning, the family discovered the chameleon on the floor of her enclosure, gray and weak. They took her to an exotic animal vet that day and spent $166 on her--she is calcium deficient, dehydrated, AND egg bound. She was given a calcium injection, IV fluids, and calcium drops that must be given to her daily for an unspecified length of time (I have the veterinary report and instructions). The vet also instructed that the UVB bulb be replaced. Finally, the vet told them to give her a "container that has 6-12 inches of over moist play sand in it" so she'll have a place to lay her eggs. Unfortunately, the pot the current owners have provided is only about 5" x 5," but I've read in some online sources that veiled chameleons need a five-gallon pot of 50/50 sand-peat mixture for egg-laying. So I'm concerned about that . . . among other things.

The family acquired the chameleon as an adult of unknown age about a year ago. Since then, "Lea" has been kept in an 18" x 18" x 18" (???) GLASS enclosure with a screen top. She has been fed only gut-loaded, calcium-dusted crickets--no other inverts, no vegetable matter of any kind.

Lea may be arriving at my house tonight (with her current enclosure), though it's possible the owners will wait because our weather is terrible today (it's been snowing and we currently having freezing rain). There are scheduling issues due to their upcoming move and conflicting work schedules between me and them, so tonight was a poor "best" choice. I'm hoping we'll be able to wait until the weekend, though, as I think it would be much safer for this poor chameleon; hopefully they'll agree and decide to wait!

So--today I have ordered a 24" x 24" x 48" screen enclosure and a tray for that enclosure to rehouse Lea after she moves here. We have bought a Zoo Med mini-combo deep dome (dual-dome) light fixture, a new UVB bulb, and an infrared bulb for that fixture. I also bought a Schefflera today (one-gallon pot size; 40" from base of pot to top leaves) to put in her enclosure.

What else do I need to do to save this poor chameleon? Is there anything I'm planning that I should NOT do? I've saved a number of snakes and fire-bellied toads, but I've never had a chameleon--and I wasn't ever planning to have one, but here I am . . . just sign me,

A Sucker for an Orphan!

aka Chu'Wuti (Hopi for Snake Woman)
and
Sandy

 

[Kate]

Hi and welcome. You have come to the right place for help. I do not keep females but im sure someone will chime in soon. I have read over your post and the only thing i will coment on is the infra red bulb. Chams do better without them as they have a parietal eye on top of their head and any light at all can disturb their sleep. There is a good blog on here by jannb about egg laying. I hope you can help this little one. Good luck. Look forward to hearing about her progress.

 

[ChuWuti]

Kate, Hi, and thanks for jumping on this so promptly--it's good to know this is an active forum!

So I just called the family to find out what they decided about moving day, and they are actually on their way to my house with her right now.

I should replace the infrared bulb then, perhaps with a daytime basking bulb?

What should we use for a heat source at night?

Sandy

 

[Padose]

Hey Sandy, welcome to forum. Great place to come! I use a ceramic heat emitter for night time. But it is ok for temps to go down some at night. I use a basking bulb and UVB fixture during day, and the ceramic heater for night. Something else that will really help the forum help you, is pictures. Keep us posted

 

[deadhd5]

As long as the temps at night remain higher than 60 you won't need or want to use a nighttime heater. If heating is required a heat emitter is preferable to a heat bulb.

 

[carol5208]

Hi Sandy and welcome. Good of you to take on this cham, but does sound like she comes with many issues. If at all possible, post some pics of her. Do you know if she was diagnosed with Metabolic bone disease? Can she climb and grip well without falling? The reason I am asking is because I see you have ordered a cage that is quite high. If she is prone to falling, you might want to get a shorter cage or line the bottom with towels.

 

[ChuWuti]

Hope this works . . .

OK, I've taken pics, uploaded to photobucket, and resized in hopes that this forum will accept them!

A couple of other bits of info:

The vet said to maintain temps of 80 until she's better. Let me quote the entire set of instructions from the vet:

"Lea presented for weakness and lethargy. She is egg bound and has low calcium. We can try medical management, but it is likely that she will need to be spayed. I have given her a calcium injections, some fluids under the skin, and am sending you home with an oral calcium supplement. Her humidity needs to be at 60-70% and her environment should be kept at 80 degrees until she is feeling better. I would recommend changing your UVB bulb, just in case it is not emitting the UVB rays that she needs. She needs a container that has 6-12 inches of very moist play sand in it- It should be moist enough that she can dig a tunnel in it and it will not collapse on her. Please see the handouts I am sending home with you for more information. Please don't hesitate to call if you have any questions or concerns."

Everyone, I really appreciate your quick responses and help!

Sandy

 

[ChuWuti]

Photos too big; Sorry!

Even resized per the info I could find for your photo contest, the images are really huge. I apologize!

Maybe that will actually help, though . . .

Anyway, apparently the vet did NOT say Lea has metabolic bone disease, and I'm not seeing the double elbows shown in some pics posted on the MBD info page y'all have. Nevertheless, I am concerned about what appears to be some curvature of leg bones, but I don't know enough about chams to determine whether the curvature I see is abnormal or not.

Also, Lea is able to climb and cling, though she seems to be somewhat weak and moves pretty slowly. I know that chams generally do move slowly, but I'm thinking she moves unusually slowly . . . but what do I know??? I take care of snakes, not chams, usually! Though we did end up taking on fire-bellied toads about six months ago . . . Anyway, she was up in a corner when I went back upstairs to get her for her photo op, and didn't seem to be having any difficulty hanging on.

Let's see, I keep trying to answer all the questions and forgetting some . . . ah, the big cage--I do have a 16 x 16 x 20 that I won in a raffle at a herp show about a year & a-half ago that we could use temporarily; she's currently in her familiar 18 x 18 x 24 glass enclosure, which the family would like to take with them when they move.

And I have a ceramic heat emitter that we've put on the top of the cage screen for a night-time heat source; I'm going to check the temps soon as I haven't used it in quite awhile.

Looking forward to hearing more! Thanks so much!

Sandy

 

[Padose]

ChuWuti, good for you for taking on this girl. You're doing everything right that you can. The vet is obviously the trump card if it's a good one. This forum is definitely a great place to be too though. In my opinion she does look to have some slight unnatural curves to her arms, but not extreme. Would definitely explain the vet emphasizing calcium. I don't know how much of her big belly is chubbiness and how much is eggbinding, but that's definitely something to pay attention to and would slow her down quite a bit. Anyway, I'm just a noob too, but this has been a great resource and I've learned tons! Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Lizardguy1]

Is she eating? With the calcium deficiency I recommend feeding her calcium dusted crickets daily, and most importantly, hydrate her- spray her with warm distilled Or demineralized water twice a day. Good luck, let us know how she responds-

 

[ChuWuti]

Yes, she will eat--she ate two well-dusted gut-loaded crickets this morning while I was being taught how to feed and medicate her. From what the family said, she ate more crickets this afternoon before they brought her over.

The vet did say that she's overweight--"Body condition 6," if that means something to anyone.

I had recommended that they take her to Dr. Brad Minson, a herp-certified vet in Oklahoma City who is recommended by the Oklahoma City Herpetological and Invertebrate Society (of which I'm a member). He was out of town, but his office referred them to Neel Veterinary Hospital, telling them they had an exotic animal vet. I don't know whether or not that is the vet they saw, but apparently she seemed competent and comfortable with chams. Other than that, I don't have any further information about the particular vet they saw.

Sandy

 

[ChuWuti]

Lizardguy, I should spray her directly, not just her environment?

This morning she is still hanging out in the corner where she spent the night. Color seems reasonably good (as far as *I* know). We have to give her her calcium drops in a bit.

Carol, you suggested putting towels in the bottom of the new enclosure when it arrives in case she falls. Just a thick layer, or should I bunch them up?? I definitely don't want her to hurt herself, and I have plenty of old towels to donate to the cause.

I put her equipment on a zilla power strip, but it has been a long time since I've used it and things didn't come on this morning. I've downloaded the instructions and printed them, so now I must go read them and see what I did wrong in setting things up. Also, the ceramic heat emitter I put over her last night never raised the temp much; it's a good thing we left our house heat up last night, as the temperature probe I put in her enclosure at midlevel (the level at which she was resting) only got about 1.5 degrees higher than the ambient temp. Frustration! I may need a new heat emitter . . . more $$$ . . . ack. My poor DH is being very patient with the whole thing, but usually my rescues don't cost this much. However, he fortunately has become just as invested in saving her as I have! At least I *think* so!

 

[ChuWuti]

She ate at least three crickets this morning. She's been hanging out in her paint bucket full of sand/Eco Earth mix.

but she's not digging in it.

I wrapped an old shower curtain around her tank several hours ago to give her more privacy.

There's still one cricket in her enclosure, and I just saw it ON her. Should I take it out??

Sandy

 

[camimom]

It can take her several days to dig and lay.

Just leave her be,

 

[ChuWuti]

OK. I saw the shower curtain suggestion and wrapped her tank so she has more privacy. I will now leave her be except for misting and offering crickets, well-dusted with calcium powder.

THANKS!!!!!

 

[ChuWuti]

She's finally digging!! I went up to spray her (her noonish spraying), but when I peeked through the top of the curtain around her tank and saw what she was doing, I just backed away again.

Maybe just a test hole, but that's a start!

 

[Kate]

Hope everything goes well

 

[ChuWuti]

Lea is laying her eggs . . . on TOP of the soil. I walked in quietly to check on her this morning, and she was on top of one of the artificial vines going across the bucket. I thought she wasn't doing anything, so, as everything was dry, I decided to spray her. When I did, she moved off the vine--almost falling--and I could see two eggs on the surface of the soil behind her.

I immediately closed the cage, recurtained her, and left, but I'm really concerned . . .

 

[Kate]

That is so good to hear. Egg laying is always an anxious time, but she is doing it! Hopefully when she is finished laying she will have one problem less. Good luck and keep posting.

 

[ChuWuti]

What a relief to read your post, Kate--my DH & I have been worried that her laying on top of the soil meant she is too weak to dig and, hence, potentially too weak to survive the rigors of laying.

Sheeeeesh . . . we've had this girl less than a week and we are totally invested in her survival! My DH is off building a base to support her new screen enclosure; he already wants to order an extension for the top to give her more height . . . I said, "Listen to you! One week ago you thought I was crazy to agree to take her, and now you're planning a palace for her!" He said, defensively, "Well, she's cool! and I don't want her to die because we didn't do enough for her!"

Praying that all his work won't go for naught!