Im thinking gravid?
- Thread starter Phoenix
- Start date
boothy
New Member
kinyonga , im not tryin to start a fight with you and argue but how do eggs get made in a cham? with calcium right , im sure theres a few vitamins and minerals thats help out to , but i personally think that by giving a female more clacium it will up her egg clucthes of eggs and the amount of eggs, in the wild they only get enough calcium to lay eggs and live a short life , in captivity we give them soo much more calcium that they just make a tonne of eggs with , buts that my opinion
boothy
boothy
boothy...you said..."how do eggs get made in a cham? with calcium right"...not exactly...the egg SHELL gets made with calcium. "In oviparous species, nutrients from eggshell (calcium) and yolk (nitrogen, lipids, calcium, magnesium, trace minerals, vitamins) are transferred to the embryo".
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/july2003/nutrition/nutrition_jul_03.html
I don't know if chameleons are included in this but expect they are...and if they are it shows you that there is not a lot of calcium in the egg yolk...
"The yolk of most reptiles apparently lacks sufficient
calcium for ossification of embryonic bones."
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...s+AND+vitellogenesis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca
You said..."giving a female more clacium it will up her egg clucthes of eggs and the amount of eggs"...the increase in the number of eggs has to do with overfeeding the chameleon at the beginning of the cycle in my experience and from what I have read....and overfeeding has been said to increase the risks of eggbinding. It is definitely necessary to have enough calcium to produce/shell the number of eggs that are in an up-coming clutch...but giving her more won't increase the number of eggs.
Here's a site commenting on food/large clutches....
"The quantity of food needed varies by individual but particularly with female chameleons it is important not to overfeed as this can lead to dangerously large clutches of eggs."
http://www.chrisabraham.com/2007/04/the_fourhorned.html
Here are more...
"Factors that can contribute to the risk of egg binding include calcium deficiency, breeding animals that are too young or too small, not providing suitable laying areas (leading to deliberate retention of eggs), and overfeeding of species in which clutch size is dependent on food intake (such as Veiled Chameleons)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_bound
"If you continue to feed your animal as if it were a baby it will grow to adult size faster than normal but females will ovulate sooner than they should, and produce more eggs than is good for them so over-feeding of sub-adults should be avoided."
http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/babycare.html
"Adult female veiled chameleons should not be fed all they want, their diet should be restricted to 20-30 insects per week, babies up to the age of 4-5 months can be fed 30-40 (small) insects per week."
http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymounta...RMHCarpets.htm
Increasing the amount of calcium won't guarantee that there will be more calcium available in the chameleon's system anyway...calcium absorption hinges on the amount of vitamin D3 available which in nature, is regulated by the body.
This article explains it....
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
You said..."in the wild they only get enough calcium to lay eggs and live a short life , in captivity we give them soo much more calcium that they just make a tonne of eggs with"...in the wild they get what is available and produce smaller clutches. In captivity we control what they get and thus, to some extent the size of the clutches and their longevity. Overfeeding, in my experience shortens their lives while keeping them on a "diet" that keeps them not too fat or too thin, increases the length of their lives and cuts the size of the clutches down to what they would produce in the wild. I'm sure that predation, climate, food supply and other things that they don't have to cope with in captivity contribute to their lives being shorter in the wild.
Just my take on it....
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/july2003/nutrition/nutrition_jul_03.html
I don't know if chameleons are included in this but expect they are...and if they are it shows you that there is not a lot of calcium in the egg yolk...
"The yolk of most reptiles apparently lacks sufficient
calcium for ossification of embryonic bones."
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...s+AND+vitellogenesis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca
You said..."giving a female more clacium it will up her egg clucthes of eggs and the amount of eggs"...the increase in the number of eggs has to do with overfeeding the chameleon at the beginning of the cycle in my experience and from what I have read....and overfeeding has been said to increase the risks of eggbinding. It is definitely necessary to have enough calcium to produce/shell the number of eggs that are in an up-coming clutch...but giving her more won't increase the number of eggs.
Here's a site commenting on food/large clutches....
"The quantity of food needed varies by individual but particularly with female chameleons it is important not to overfeed as this can lead to dangerously large clutches of eggs."
http://www.chrisabraham.com/2007/04/the_fourhorned.html
Here are more...
"Factors that can contribute to the risk of egg binding include calcium deficiency, breeding animals that are too young or too small, not providing suitable laying areas (leading to deliberate retention of eggs), and overfeeding of species in which clutch size is dependent on food intake (such as Veiled Chameleons)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_bound
"If you continue to feed your animal as if it were a baby it will grow to adult size faster than normal but females will ovulate sooner than they should, and produce more eggs than is good for them so over-feeding of sub-adults should be avoided."
http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/babycare.html
"Adult female veiled chameleons should not be fed all they want, their diet should be restricted to 20-30 insects per week, babies up to the age of 4-5 months can be fed 30-40 (small) insects per week."
http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymounta...RMHCarpets.htm
Increasing the amount of calcium won't guarantee that there will be more calcium available in the chameleon's system anyway...calcium absorption hinges on the amount of vitamin D3 available which in nature, is regulated by the body.
This article explains it....
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html
You said..."in the wild they only get enough calcium to lay eggs and live a short life , in captivity we give them soo much more calcium that they just make a tonne of eggs with"...in the wild they get what is available and produce smaller clutches. In captivity we control what they get and thus, to some extent the size of the clutches and their longevity. Overfeeding, in my experience shortens their lives while keeping them on a "diet" that keeps them not too fat or too thin, increases the length of their lives and cuts the size of the clutches down to what they would produce in the wild. I'm sure that predation, climate, food supply and other things that they don't have to cope with in captivity contribute to their lives being shorter in the wild.
Just my take on it....
