Is he okay?

[scs]

Hi everyone, I'm not sure if I'm over reacting or being adequately cautious... my year-ish old male panther chameleon, Sebastian, has been acting out of sorts. He skipped a meal this weekend and the edges of his eyes seemed darker. He's been retreating to his sleepy spot more often and hanging out there. That area has the most foliage in his entire cage so I can't tell if his eyes are sunken or if the shadows are making it seem worse than it is. Also, it was only 3pm when I came home from school today and he was sleeping already. Usually he goes to bed between 5 and 7. In case it isn't just shadows and instead sunken eyes (dehydration), I set up a dripper next to him so that he can reach water any time. A few weeks ago he was shedding, if that matters. Lately he's had dark red color, but he usually has teal stripes and bright red that fades to yellow and green.

I tried to take pictures with different lighting so that you guys could see his eyes. I took all of these pictures within a minute of each other, though I must say his eyes don't look as shallow in real life as they do in the first two pictures... The white spots on the bottom of his eye aren't actually that prominent so I guess they are reflections from bad lighting, but his red scales do fade away to plain/smooth blackish/dark skin around the edges of his eyes.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - ambilobe panther, male, over a year old, 8 months in my care
Handling - every weekend I leave the door open and do my homework in front of the cage and he'll come out several steps to eat, a few weeks ago he even used a few of my fingers instead of the branch
Feeding - we feed him crickets, wax worms, and meal worms; he gets at least a dozen crickets per day with meal worms in between and wax worms as treats
Supplements - calcium with every meal, alternating D3 and multivitamin each weekend
Watering - we have a HabaMist and a ReptiRain machine which are on every hour, one for 30 seconds and the other for 15; the nozzles are directed so that all plant leaves get wet
Fecal Description - his cage is huge so I haven't found fecal matter in a few days, but I have news paper on the floor of his cage so that I'll notice when fresh poop falls
History - he came from a breeder that has a lot of chameleons and goes to reptile shows; He's been to the vet before and the fecal tests for parasites came back negative
Cage Info:
Cage Type - http://www.bigappleherp.com/Colossal-Corner-Lizard-Cage
Lighting - one large growth lamp for the plants, a ZooMed UVB lamp, and a ceramic heat lamp, the lights are on from 6 am-7ish pm
Temperature - high-80s during the day at the basking spot and it gets closer to room temp as it gets farther away from the basking spot; night temperature is room temperature; we have a sensor hanging by the basking spot which has a display outside the cage
Humidity - we have the regular misting in the cage and an indoor pond around the corner; the humidity is generally above 50%; the temperature sensor (at the basking spot) is also a humidity sensor
Plants - all live: many pothos, and a small (safe, already checked) ficus
Placement - we have an open living space and it is in a corner there; there is a vent in the wall and a little fan (on 4 times a day for 20 minutes) to dry off the substrate on the bottom of the cage (there is a grid over the substrate which is in a pan that the chameleon can't get to); the cage is from 0 to 75% of the height of the room (total height is about 6 feet)
Location - we are in Pittsburgh, PA

 

[scs]

As I was taking this picture a few minutes ago he opened his eyes... and I think this is a better portrayal of the shape of his eyes when they are open.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I don't know panthers, but everything you are doing seems right. I agree, he doesn't look great.

I've heard some will slow down in the winter, almost like they are beginning brumation. Can you add more light and brighten up the cage?

Is he eating? At his age, I think most people recommend only feeding three or four times a week.

If he were mine, I would put the misters on for 20 minutes three times a day and increase the brightness of the cage. I wouldn't worry about drying out the substrate at the bottom--it is a good reservoir for increasing the humidity of the cage. You live in the north east--it's winter and your air is very dry. Your cage is open, so won't trap any humidity. I would be worried about the humidity levels, especially since he is looking a little dehydrated.

If he isn't eating, I would be inclined to take him to the vet sooner rather than later. Sometimes just getting hydrated will turn them around.

 

[scs]

Thank you for your help, jajeanpierre! Sebastian looked a little bit better around 3pm but was still in the back corner... also, he was asleep a few minutes ago and his eyes were nearly flush with the sides of his head! The dripper is still there for him, and I carefully put a few wax worms (his favorite) on the branches within his reach. I don't want to stress him out by constantly shoving food in his face, but he hasn't pooped in a few days now and hasn't eaten (that I know of) since Tuesday. I'll definitely increase the time frame of spraying and turn off the fan.

Any other ideas? If he doesn't get better with higher humidity, should I bring him to the vet within the next few days? I was planning on waiting for him to poop so I could bring a sample for parasite testing... or does he need to be looked at right away?

 

[KLowery88]

It would probably be worth getting him to the vet. At the very least they could see about getting some fluids into him. What you can also do to increase humidity is wrap three sides of the screen cage in plastic. Plastic liners or shower curtains help cut down on air flow and evaporation.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you for your help, jajeanpierre! Sebastian looked a little bit better around 3pm but was still in the back corner... also, he was asleep a few minutes ago and his eyes were nearly flush with the sides of his head! The dripper is still there for him, and I carefully put a few wax worms (his favorite) on the branches within his reach. I don't want to stress him out by constantly shoving food in his face, but he hasn't pooped in a few days now and hasn't eaten (that I know of) since Tuesday. I'll definitely increase the time frame of spraying and turn off the fan.

Any other ideas? If he doesn't get better with higher humidity, should I bring him to the vet within the next few days? I was planning on waiting for him to poop so I could bring a sample for parasite testing... or does he need to be looked at right away?

SInce he still isn't right, I would get him in tomorrow. It's been awhile and you've been aware of it and doing things to make it better. Your husbandry is pretty good (not 100% sure about the temps as I know nothing about panthers), so that he is still worrying you is a good enough reason to get him to a vet. I have been really quick to get animals in to a vet and sometimes I've been wrong and I wasted $50, but if they are going downhill, the sooner the downward slide is stopped the better the prognosis. The weekend is coming up, so you are not going to get in to a vet until Monday or you take your chances with an emergency dog/cat vet. My reptile vet and I have discussed in the case of a real emergency, is it better to wait the weekend for her to get back in the office or to take my chances with an emergency vet with no reptile experience. She basically came to the conclusion that it might very well be better to wait.

Did you add more light? If they don't have enough light, they shut right down. Most cages are really dark.

Everyone on this forum is over the top paranoid about parasites. Parasites are over rated as the cause of declining health. The current way zoo vets are treating reptiles with parasites is to do nothing if the animal is doing well. This week I took to the vet a newly acquired long-term wild caught I bought from another breeder who bought him immediately after import a year ago. He had never been wormed. For some reason, he has not coped with the shipping and change of homes and is not eating. I took him in to the vet the first day she was back in the office, a week after he arrived in my care. Over the last weekend before I got him in to the vet, I had force fed him a few silk worms and he improved.a lot. He produced a pathetically small stool sample, which showed round worms and flagellates. No surprise. While discussing how to get him out of his funk (the vet was actually happy with him), I told her I only brought in a stool sample on the off chance there was something really bad that I needed to know about because I wasn't going to treat him for parasites until he had been doing well for a long time. She looked at me and said, "If we treat him at all. We might not want to treat him."

Don't worry about the parasites. I don't know when your boy last ate, but if they don't eat, they can get themselves on a downward spiral. Force feeding creates its own problems and is not without risk. Personally, I would be taking him in if he were mine.

Good luck.

 

[alphakenc]

His eyes look sunken, what color poop he has??
Plz dont feed him mealworms n wax worms,try silkworms hornworms n gutloaded dubia roach.
My guess is either he is dehydrated,or and those mealworms giving him no nutrition value at all,needs a fecal test so u can find out if he has parasites or he is dehydrated on that sunken eyes.