Is it possible for a chameleon to have MBD when housed outside

[GooglezNvincent]

My male that I have had for about a month now is showing signs of MBD. I noticed when he moves he kind of trembles and his front right leg looks a little bowed. I am confused though because I house him outside in the natural sunlight and I dust his crickets w/ out D3 once a week. Any information is greatly appreciated!

Trevor Rizzuto

 

[Lancecham]

How old is your panther? And do you use any other calcium supplement other than what you mentioned?

 

[Julirs]

You only dust once a week?

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

Even if he is housed outside he can develop MBD rather easily if you are feeding him un-gutloaded feeders or feeders gut-loaded with fruits and veggies that are more harmful them being phosphorus heavy instead of high in calcium or some even contain extreme amounts of oxalates which prevent calcium absorption. A good example of one with oxalates is Collard greens, they have some outrageous calcium to phosphorus ratio that seems ideal for a gut-load(I believe it is 7:1 calcium to phosphorus) however with the extreme amounts of oxalates slim to none of that calcium is absorbed. How often do you dust with plain calcium without D3? This article should help you out a lot. Read the bullet towards the bottom about inhibitors of calcium absorption. I really do hope your chameleon starts to get better, or in the case it truly is MBD stay the same as chams can never truly recover 100% from MBD. Good Luck!


Justin


http://www.petmedsfromvets.co.uk/information.php?p=show_pet_information&info=467

 

[sandrachameleon]

While getting UVB from natural light is good, its not all that is needed. Once a week with calcium is likely inadequate (depending on what feeders you use). You also need to have other vitamins in the mix, so how you gutload is important too.

You might like to take the cham to the vet to find out if indeed the shaking is related to MBD or other deficiencies, or some other issue.

 

[GooglezNvincent]

I gut load with carrots, romain lettuce, oranges, bananas, and apples. I will be taking him into Dr. Greek to see what all is going on with him, I just wanted to ask and see if it were possible for him to have MBD especially if I don't gutload with blockers such as spinach and broccoli. Thank you for your input all.

 

[carol5208]

I think your dusting schedule is more of a concern than the gutloading. You are smart in taking him to a vet just to be sure.

 

[sarah777]

He could have been developing it before you even got him it doesn't show up overnight.

 

[GooglezNvincent]

He could have been developing it before you even got him it doesn't show up overnight.

That's what I was thinking, but hoping that it not the case.

I have all my chams on the same dusting schedule and out of 35+ chameleons no others has MBD or signs of it.

 

[Ricardo]

... if I don't gutload with blockers such as spinach and broccoli.

Hi! As i red broccoli containh high levels of Ca, so it should be good for gutload, but correct me if i am wrong! (sine its the flower of Brassica oleraceae)

 

[Ricardo]

Hi! As i red broccoli containh high levels of Ca, so it should be good for gutload, but correct me if i am wrong! (sine its the flower of Brassica oleraceae)

recently red lot of confusing info about the broccili's oxalate content... moderate, high, low...so im not sure about it. maybe skip brokkoli is the most safe solution.

I just thought it can be good because "collard greens" are mean Brassica oleraceae according to the internet, and as i red you recomend the collard greens to gutload... (maybe except broccoli)

Is it right that collard green is the B. oleraceae??? or its something else?

Thanks!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hi! As i red broccoli containh high levels of Ca, so it should be good for gutload, but correct me if i am wrong! (sine its the flower of Brassica oleraceae)

Broccoli is high in Oxalic Acid, which inhibits absorption of calcium. You may find this useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/215-oxalic-acid-content-vegetables.html
Uncooked oxalates are less concerning that cooked, and either way, in moderation, you dont have to worry about it too much. Its just that there are other better choices.
Broccoli also contains Goitrogens, which can inhibit thyroid function if there's inadequate iodine in the diet.

 

[tkilgour]

Broccoli is high in Oxalic Acid, which inhibits absorption of calcium. You may find this useful:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/215-oxalic-acid-content-vegetables.html
Uncooked oxalates are less concerning that cooked, and either way, in moderation, you dont have to worry about it too much. Its just that there are other better choices.
Broccoli also contains Goitrogens, which can inhibit thyroid function if there's inadequate iodine in the diet.

Sandra, If you do not mind, I am going to send those links to one of my customers who bought a chameleon from me. He called me about a month ago and said he has been feeding the chameleon broccoli and spinach. I explained to him that those are NO, NOs and gave him examples of why. Then just yesterday, the guy said again "I'm still giving the feeders broccoli, spinach, and fish flakes. :/ and the crickets love it so I don't want to quit." Once again I said to stop. If I can send him these links maybe it will help sink in the fact that these are not good. Thanks for the post.