Is my Cham crying?

Brodybreaux25 said:
Pick any subject in the world, i can easily find articles both for and against it. I’ve discussed this several times with both Petr and Bill, I’ll take their advice over a generalized news article every time.

As of late, every time I hear this argument one thing pops into my head. View attachment 246282
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I think we're just nitpicking words here. I do agree though, the emotions that humans refer to, I do not believe exist with chams. I don't like when reptiles are anthropomorphized.

And man brody, i say it as a friend... leave the politics out of the forums my dude! Not like I'm all sensitive over joe Biden, but whether it was someone on trump or Clinton's balls, it gets old hearing about it. I come here to read about chameleons, this is why I left Facebook. Any conversation somehow goes to politics.
 
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jamest0o0 said:
I think we're just nitpicking words here. I do agree though, the emotions that humans refer to, I do not believe exist with chams. I don't like when reptiles are anthropomorphized.

And man brody, i say it as a friend... leave the politics out of the forums my dude! Not like I'm all sensitive over joe Biden, but whether it was someone on trump or Clinton's balls, it gets old hearing about it. I come here to read about chameleons, this is why I left Facebook. Any conversation somehow goes to politics.
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I like to stir the pot.
 
But that does not lend validity to either argument. I can write as many articles as I want on a given topic that doesn't make one side any more or less correct.

Were talking about biology here, pure, real world science. A chams brain completely lacks an amygdala and limbic system, both of which are required for higher brain functions, specifically emotions. This is not opinion. This argument is just as ridiculous as believing there are more than two genders. Its am asinine fantasy plane and simple.

Chams do not have emotions.
 
There's nothing to say chameleons are conscious of what they feel or how they express themselves and their colors. If a chameleon is doing something reminiscent of emotion-driven responses I think you should look at it critically regardless of whether or not you believe your cham is just expressing itself. In this case, it sounds like the chameleon is acting out because he isn't in an ideal enclosure and feels safer elsewhere. I'm concerned about the watery eye though. At the off chance there's something stuck in the eye or an infection of sorts I'd recommend taking Loki to the vet.
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
But that does not lend validity to either argument. I can write as many articles as I want on a given topic that doesn't make one side any more or less correct.

Were talking about biology here, pure, real world science. A chams brain completely lacks an amygdala and limbic system, both of which are required for higher brain functions, specifically emotions. This is not opinion. This argument is just as ridiculous as believing there are more than two genders. Its am asinine fantasy plane and simple.

Chams do not have emotions.
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In terms of human psychology -- emotions = responses to stimuli. Fear, Hunger, Terror, Anxiety. All are responses to outside stimuli and considered "emotions." -- though they are instinctual responses. Some animals have more complex responses.
 
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Does chams emotion really matter? Is it not what we feel for them really important? We love them that is important thing :)
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
A chams brain completely lacks an amygdala and limbic system
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Now I’m even more lost.

“The hypothalamus is responsible for regulating your hunger, thirst, response to pain, levels of pleasure, sexual satisfaction, anger and aggressive behavior, and more. “

“ If the hippocampus is damaged, a person cannot build new memories, and lives instead in a strange world where everything they experience just fades away”

“if the amygdala is removed, animals get very tame and no longer respond to things that would have caused rage before”

So how do we explain chameleon behaviour if they don’t have anything to do these functions?
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
Yes it does. If your mistaking a cham shutting down as a stress response with the Cham wanting to cuddle with you your going to kill it. You have to understand how these animals work to care for them properly.
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No no! Please no misunderstand! I mean not to upset. I know it matters. Sorry to upset you. I know they not like handling and are look don’t touch pet. But we love watching and caring for them is what trying to say. Is that not more important then how complex their emotional comprehensibility? What trying to say is it matters how chameleons express self, but not how complex their emotion towards us. They do not like us, but we love them and care for them :) that is important, our love for them. Even if never touch pet in their life existence, we love them no matter! A lot like you all! You all are family, and love each other, this is topic not worthy of family stressing over? Different of opinion, yes? But should family not stick together? So very sorry for upsetting you, sir! Not mean to, only wanting to help calm fighting for no one gets upset. I am sorry, sir! I am really sorry, Mr Brody. May please forgive?
 
Lennoncham said:
Now I’m even more lost.

“The hypothalamus is responsible for regulating your hunger, thirst, response to pain, levels of pleasure, sexual satisfaction, anger and aggressive behavior, and more. “

“ If the hippocampus is damaged, a person cannot build new memories, and lives instead in a strange world where everything they experience just fades away”

“if the amygdala is removed, animals get very tame and no longer respond to things that would have caused rage before”

So how do we explain chameleon behaviour if they don’t have anything to do these functions?
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Human brains dont always map the same as other animal. ANS / hindbrain (edited to not mislead people) system is often referred to as "lizard brain" because it houses base instincts. Not starving is different than regulating hunger.
 
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Lennoncham said:
Now I’m even more lost.

“The hypothalamus is responsible for regulating your hunger, thirst, response to pain, levels of pleasure, sexual satisfaction, anger and aggressive behavior, and more. “

“ If the hippocampus is damaged, a person cannot build new memories, and lives instead in a strange world where everything they experience just fades away”

“if the amygdala is removed, animals get very tame and no longer respond to things that would have caused rage before”

So how do we explain chameleon behaviour if they don’t have anything to do these functions?
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Also --- humans have to navigate complex social systems that have contributed to our changing brain through time. Brains/bodies are incredible things and can adapt in ways we still cannot imagine -- (see below) -- so them not having the same regions doesn't necessarily mean they don't have those functions -- IE Pain response etc.

Memory is a tricky thing to quantify neurally even in humans (RE: Phineus Gauge) Remembering a specific date when something happened is not akin to remembering that hot = burn or snakes = danger or water = wet.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/studying-the-superhuman/


(This is just intersting re: conscousness)
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-we-need-to-study-consciousness/
 
AnamCara said:
Human brains dont always map the same as other animals. Limbic system is often referred to as "lizard brain" because it houses base instincts. Not starving is different than regulating hunger.
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Oh there was more to the article I was reading! Lol.

I think you have that backwards. The Autonomic Nervous System is the “lizard brain” which houses basic instincts which explains chameleon behaviour.

The limbic system is the more complex part of the brain which chameleons lack.

Now I get it lol.
 
Lennoncham said:
Oh there was more to the article I was reading! Lol.

I think you have that backwards. The Autonomic Nervous System is the “lizard brain” which houses basic instincts which explains chameleon behaviour.

The limbic system is the more complex part of the brain which chameleons lack.

Now I get it lol.
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Gah -- had it backwards -- thanks! My limbic system isn't kicked in.
 
Lennoncham said:
Now I’m even more lost.

“The hypothalamus is responsible for regulating your hunger, thirst, response to pain, levels of pleasure, sexual satisfaction, anger and aggressive behavior, and more. “

“ If the hippocampus is damaged, a person cannot build new memories, and lives instead in a strange world where everything they experience just fades away”

“if the amygdala is removed, animals get very tame and no longer respond to things that would have caused rage before”

So how do we explain chameleon behavior if they don’t have anything to do these functions?
Click to expand...

I mentioned the Hypothalmus because that is where humans produce Oxytocin -- the "love/bond" chemical. Further research shows they do have a hypothalamus so I'm gonna see my assuming ass out of here!
 
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