Is my Chameleon stupid or is something seriously wrong?

S

SethandNezbit

New Member
My Chameleon has been ill for about four or five days. His main symptoms are inability to climb for long periods of time and lethargy. It started last Wednesday when I found him stuck in his cage between a food dish, which I put meal worms and superworms for him to eat. I freed him, but ever since that time, he has had all sorts of troubles walking and climbing. He keeps grabbing his front legs with his back legs, tripping and then falling. Often times when I come home from class or work, I will find him on the ground. Once untangle him from himself, he seems to be okay, but a little lethargic; he doesn't move nearly as much as he used to. Is my Chameleon just stupid or is this a symptom of something else? I have been dusting all of his food with vitamin and calcium supplements, he has all the normal requirements that Chameleon keepers call for and before the incident he ate fairly regularly. Can you help me out?
 
Fill out the form. Without knowing much about your supplementing, husbandry, etc., there is no real way to tell what is wrong.

He may need a vet visit.
 
How curious... but yea, we're going to need more info than that to even attempt to guess at what could be wrong. It's not unheard of for reptiles to also suffer from mental disabilities, but it seems weird that it presented itself just a couple days ago, so I don't think that's the case.
 
My Chameleon is a male veiled Chameleon. He is about 6-9 inches from head to tail. I purchased him in mid-August. I handle him about once a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I feed him crickets, and superworms primarily. I usually give him 6-8 crickets and two or three superworms a day. He ate meal worms when he was smaller (he's grown quite a bit, he's shed at least three times since I purchased him). I dust ALL of his food with a ZooMed Vitamin Supplement and a Fluker's Calcium Supplement that has D3. I generally gut load with oats, carrots and potatoes. I water and mist him once a day. I use ice as a drip system. Usually I put about a dozen ice cube on the screen cover and that drips over the plants I have in his terrarium. His feces are normal as far as I can tell, firm brown with the yellow part being runny.

The cage I have for him is a glass, front opening with a screen top. Its the I got it at PetSmart, its the one that came in Large-Size kit from Exo-Terra. I use the light that came in that kit too. It sits on top and has two full-spectrum bulbs in it that I purchased at Lowes. The cage also sits under a sky light, so he gets natural light as well. I also have a normal heating lamp I got at a hardware store. It has a 60-watt bulb in it. I keep the temperature in between 80-90 degrees and at night, I shut everything off so it probably drop to about 70-75 degrees (room temp). The humidity is, depending on how recently I misted, in between 45-70%. This is according to the thermometer and hydrometer on the side of the cage the Exo-Terra provided in the kit. I have a Ficus and a Philodendron planted in the cage. They are planted in a non-chemically treated top-soil which I also use as a substrate. The cage is sitting on an end table that is in my bedroom. Traffic is low. Usually its just me and my girlfriend that walk by there once or twice a day. I have a part-time job and I am a full-time student at Purdue University so I'm not home all that much. Does this help?
 
The urate is supposed to be white, my cham's urates are never runny. That could be an indicator, if it's yellow it usually means dehydrated. Also, that seems like too often to be feeding superworms to your cham.

Do the Lowe's lights have UVB??
 
Hmmm...he doesn't display the normal signs of dehydration (sunken eyes ect.), though, and I see him drink fairly regularly. I'll try misting/watering him more often, though. And yes, the Lowe's light bulbs have UVB. Is UVB filtered out through windows? I'm just curious because the skylight I have above him could also be a source of UVB couldn't it?
 
SethandNezbit said:
My Chameleon is a male veiled Chameleon. He is about 6-9 inches from head to tail. I purchased him in mid-August. I handle him about once a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I feed him crickets, and superworms primarily. I usually give him 6-8 crickets and two or three superworms a day. He ate meal worms when he was smaller (he's grown quite a bit, he's shed at least three times since I purchased him). I dust ALL of his food with a ZooMed Vitamin Supplement and a Fluker's Calcium Supplement that has D3. This is way too much D3. Veileds should only get D3 about twice a month with a very light dusting. Too much will cause medical problems. So I recommend that you get a calcium without D3 for the rest of the month's dustings. I generally gut load with oats, carrots and potatoes. I water and mist him once a day. I recommend that you mist more often than that. How long do you mist for? He should get misted 2-3 times a day for 3 minutes or longer, preferably longer so he has plenty of chances to drink up.I use ice as a drip system. Usually I put about a dozen ice cube on the screen cover and that drips over the plants I have in his terrarium. His feces are normal as far as I can tell, firm brown with the yellow part being runny. The yellow shouldn't really be there at all. This confirms that you probably should provide more water. Ice cube water is really cold, and chams don't typically like drinking really cold water. Also, the urate part shouldn't be runny, this may be a sign of parasites I believe.

The cage I have for him is a glass, front opening with a screen top. Its the I got it at PetSmart, its the one that came in Large-Size kit from Exo-Terra. I use the light that came in that kit too. It sits on top and has two full-spectrum bulbs in it that I purchased at Lowes. How big is the cage? He really should be in a screen cage, but glass can work if you live somewhere cold. But more important than the cage, what are you using as a UV light? The daylight bulbs and such from Lowes do not provide the UV levels neeed by reptiles to be healthy. You'd need a Reptisun 5.0 for this.The cage also sits under a sky light, so he gets natural light as well. Natural UV does not go through glass, so unless you can open that sky light, he's not getting much benefit from that.I also have a normal heating lamp I got at a hardware store. It has a 60-watt bulb in it. I keep the temperature in between 80-90 degrees and at night, I shut everything off so it probably drop to about 70-75 degrees (room temp). The humidity is, depending on how recently I misted, in between 45-70%. This is according to the thermometer and hydrometer on the side of the cage the Exo-Terra provided in the kit. I have a Ficus and a Philodendron planted in the cage. They are planted in a non-chemically treated top-soil which I also use as a substrate. The cage is sitting on an end table that is in my bedroom. Traffic is low. Usually its just me and my girlfriend that walk by there once or twice a day. I have a part-time job and I am a full-time student at Purdue University so I'm not home all that much. Does this help?
Click to expand...


Those are the things I've noticed that could benefit from tweaking, but I'm still hesitant to asume that that's the direct cause of his behavior. The over-supplementation and lack of UV light might contribute to the motor skill problems, but I can't say for sure.
 
Some times chams grabbing limbs and getting tangled is an early sign of oncoming MBD.
He needs a UVB to help his bones grow the right way,
sun from a CLOSED window doesn't help, he needs natural sunlight or a reptiglo 5.0 LINEAR bulb or a reptisun LINEAR bulb.
 
you should have him in a SCREEN cage, not glass. the measurements should be 18x18x36 or 2x2x4.

also, you should only dust with D3 twice a month. dust with repcal phosphorus free calcium 5-6x a week.
and herptivite multi vitamin 2x a month as well.
can you post pictures? if your chameleon is sick, a picture will make it a whole lot easier to make a diagnosis.
 
PedroANDAshley said:
Some times chams grabbing limbs and getting tangled is an early sign of oncoming MBD.
He needs a UVB to help his bones grow the right way,
sun from a CLOSED window doesn't help, he needs natural sunlight or a reptiglo 5.0 LINEAR bulb or a reptisun LINEAR bulb.
Click to expand...

yeah, get a repti-sun or a repti-glo 5.0 uvb linear lube. you should take him outside like ashley said.
 
You said..."His main symptoms are inability to climb for long periods of time and lethargy"..."he has had all sorts of troubles walking and climbing"..."He keeps grabbing his front legs with his back legs, tripping and then falling"...."I will find him on the ground"..."he doesn't move nearly as much as he used to"....these are all signs of calcium issues (MBD) as was already said.

You said..."I dust ALL of his food with a ZooMed Vitamin Supplement and a Fluker's Calcium Supplement that has D3. I generally gut load with oats, carrots and potatoes"....as was already said, you don't need to give it D3 that often. D3 from supplements can build up in the system so its better to give it only a couple of times a month and let the chameleon produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB from a proper light.

You said..."It sits on top and has two full-spectrum bulbs in it that I purchased at Lowes. The cage also sits under a sky light, so he gets natural light as well"...the light from the skylight will do no good if it passes through glass or plastic. As was already said....the Lowe's bulbs are likely full visible spectrum not including UVB. However...it seems kind of strange to me that with the D3 you've been giving it in the supplement that it should be having calcium issues. However you said you dust with ZooMed Vitamin Supplement and a Fluker's Calcium Supplement...if its Reptivite that you are using it has preformed vitamin A in it and that may be preventing the D3 from being used to absorb the calcium.

I would recommend that you take it to a vet ASAP and he/she can do some tests to see what the calcium levels are and if it is indeed MBD the vet can give it some calcium injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give it a shot of calcitonin to draw the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

You said.."I use ice as a drip system. Usually I put about a dozen ice cube on the screen cover and that drips over the plants I have in his terrarium"...water from ice cubes is likely too cold and your chameleon may not be drinking enough as a result.

You said..."His feces are normal as far as I can tell, firm brown with the yellow part being runny"..the yellow part should not be really runny and should be white...its the urates (urine).

You said..."treated top-soil which I also use as a substrate"...most people recommend not using a substrate. Many of the substrates used can cause impactions so its safer not to use any.

Here's some information that I often post for newbies which will explain bone health and other things that are important in keeping chameleons....
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.

Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.

If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.

Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too.

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
 
Kinyonga, I just wanted to say that I think it's fantastic that you give such thorough and informative answers to everyone that inquires. I notice that you always take the time and have the patience where many members don't and that's really great!!! :):):):)
 
Thanks JaxyGirl! When I first started keeping chameleons about 25 years ago, there was little information out there and it was all "live and learn"...I'm glad I can save some people some of those learning steps.
 
I know...I wish I knew about this forum when I got my Jackson's almost 2 years ago. I couldn't find much of anything about their care. The one website that had any details disappeared and even that was vague. I've owned a lot of reptiles throughout the years and was able to make a lot of good educated guesses and my guy has been doing great from day one. But, for the people that have no idea what to do with their chams it's nice to know that someone takes the time to answer their questions on this forum :)
 
Could you please post a picture of your chameleon so we can view its limbs to give an opinion as to whether it has MBD(metabolic bone disease) It sure would be helpful!
 
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