Is this a bruise?

[Chameleophlaged]

I noticed this spot this morning while feeding her. I tried to wash it off, but not happening.

The smaller spot on the crest wraps around slightly to the other side

She is about 1 year old and housed communally with 3 sibling sisters in a heavily planted 2X2X4 foot enclosure, kept outdoors 24/7, daytime temps in cage are 75ish in deep vegetation 82-85 in sunlit areas, humidity 50%+ daytime 80-90% nighttime, nighttime temp 60-65.

Eating, drinking and pooping normally.

I've moved her into her own enclosure for the time being while I keep an eye on this.

If it is larger tomorrow morning I will take her to the vet.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Why is she housed with three other chams? Being that she is housed with three other chams she probbably got into a scrap with one of them and this is the result. Chams should not be housed together.

 

[timw1]

Since it wraps around my suspicion is a bite from another cham.

 

[Angelwolf]

And a 2x2x4 is extremely small for that species, let alone 4 of them! You need to separate them all, immediately. As someone already said, they are probably fighting and are no doubt stressing each other out! You WILL have deaths if you don't!

 

[Chameleophlaged]

She has been housed communally all of her life. There has never been any sign of aggression between them, never a tail nip not even an aggressive coloration. They are fed extremely well so no fights over food.

I am aware that conventional wisdom says "never" more than one per enclosure, but since I have well over 150 chameleons (5 rarer species, 3 types of Jackson and of course Panthers), I sometimes bend the wisdom, only this group is housed together, as somewhat of an experiment. I would not attempt an "experiment" like this with males, but have read numerous times that females may be housed in small groups as long as conditions are such that they can find solitude somewhere in the enclosure and have a consistent readily available food supply and as I mentioned this is a VERY heavily vegetated cage.

If it is a bruise I will assume violence between two of them, and will separate them, deeming the experiment a failure.

To be perfectly honest she was housed in the same enclosure with 7 others. I have been giving them away to friends who demonstrate to me that they are willing to spend the $$ (by purchasing ALL of the accouterment necessary to keep these animals) and have time and knowledge (they have to take a test) for the task.

 

[Chameleophlaged]

And a 2x2x4 is extremely small for that species, let alone 4 of them! You need to separate them all, immediately. As someone already said, they are probably fighting and are no doubt stressing each other out! You WILL have deaths if you don't!

Extremely small for a Jackson? What size do you feel they need?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

She has been housed communally all of her life. There has never been any sign of aggression between them, never a tail nip not even an aggressive coloration. They are fed extremely well so no fights over food.

I am aware that conventional wisdom says "never" more than one per enclosure, but since I have well over 150 chameleons (5 rarer species, 3 types of Jackson and of course Panthers), I sometimes bend the wisdom, only this group is housed together, as somewhat of an experiment. I would not attempt an "experiment" like this with males, but have read numerous times that females may be housed in small groups as long as conditions are such that they can find solitude somewhere in the enclosure and have a consistent readily available food supply and as I mentioned this is a VERY heavily vegetated cage.

If it is a bruise I will assume violence between two of them, and will separate them, deeming the experiment a failure.

To be perfectly honest she was housed in the same enclosure with 7 others. I have been giving them away to friends who demonstrate to me that they are willing to spend the $$ (by purchasing ALL of the accouterment necessary to keep these animals) and have time and knowledge (they have to take a test) for the task.

I’d love to see your 150 chams. why so many? What do you do with them?

 

[Decadancin]

Extremely small for a Jackson? What size do you feel they need?

OK, maybe not for one, but for 4 it definitely would be extremely small. For four in the same enclosure you would need a large greenhouse where they would not have much chance of encountering each other. Even then there would be risks. It's not only about competition for food.

 

[Chameleophlaged]

I’d love to see your 150 chams. why so many? What do you do with them?

The simple answer is "I br/f eed them", over 100 of them are babies between 3 weeks and 7 months old, but a more precise answer is " I enjoy the he** out of them".
Actually its a hobby that got away from me. I wanted to breed True Jacksons, so I bought 2.3 Xanths for practice while I searched out T.J. Jacksonii. I figured that things hadn't changed a lot since the 70's when I was getting imported animals, most would arrive in terrible condition and would soon die, so when the opportunity arose I ordered large numbers, hoping to get a few that survived long enough to breed, they all survived/thrived and arrived gravid. I haven't been able to breed any of the WC's yet because they appear to be gravid with retained sperm clutches, so more to come.

Shortly (tomorrow) I will be receiving a shipment of Reptiles2U packing materials and will be posting an ad in the forum market for T. Jacksonii Jacksonii (about 60), T. Hoenelli (about 25) and T .Elliotti (about 20). I'm in the process of taking pictures of them now, so you'll be able to see many there.

 

[Chameleophlaged]

OK, maybe not for one, but for 4 it definitely would be extremely small. For four in the same enclosure you would need a large greenhouse where they would not have much chance of encountering each other. Even then there would be risks. It's not only about competition for food.

I understand what you are saying, and as I mentioned, this was an experiment. Now that they are reaching maturity they are most likely becoming more territorial and aggressive, hence the bruise.
I have many, many 2X2X4 reptibreezes on hand (just in case I decided to keep a lot of babies for breeding stock), I promise I will assemble 3 tonight, furnish them tomorrow and give each of these girls the homes they deserve.

 

[Decadancin]

I understand what you are saying, and as I mentioned, this was an experiment. Now that they are reaching maturity they are most likely becoming more territorial and aggressive, hence the bruise.
I have many, many 2X2X4 reptibreezes on hand (just in case I decided to keep a lot of babies for breeding stock), I promise I will assemble 3 tonight, furnish them tomorrow and give each of these girls the homes they deserve.

I get it, just care too much (not saying you don't) to try it. It is in their nature to be territorial and want plenty of space.

 

[Angelwolf]

We all have much to learn, despite the fact that we (as chameleon keepers/breeders) have come so far since the 70s. Sometimes, it takes a daring person to try new things to learn more. I'm glad you will be setting up new cages for your girls. I think they will be happier. I would love to see some pics of your reptile room! It has to be HUGE! I apologize if I offended you. The members of the forum are so passionate about these animals that we tend to jump on anything that isn't "right", because we don't want to see any harm come to these precious creatures. We are all very passionate people.

 

[Cobalt145]

I would love to see pictures of your baby chams there really is nothing cuter! as for the bruise from what I understand they tend to go away kind of like human bruises though I would keep an eye on those girls just to be sure that they aren't starting to get aggressive. I understand you have a lot of experience but double checking might not be a bad thing!

 

[Char333p]

Its really only okay to keep them together when theyre young.. once sexually matured they will become agressive towards one other.

 

[JacksJill]

That looks very much like a bruise in the shape of a mouth. Looks like the girls are going to need individual cages.
Keep an eye on it but I suspect it will begin to fade in a day or two. If there is any abrasion Neosporin will prevent infection.

 

[JimO]

Keep an eye on those spots. Over the years I have seen several small skin abscesses that caused the skin around the infection to get dark. Initially, the infected tissue can start very small and then grow quickly without treatment. Examine the spots under a magnifying glass to see if the skin is broken or any white or gray material is visible in the center of the discolored areas.

 

[Chameleophlaged]

They have all been given individual homes and are exploring them as we speak.

The bruise hasn't gotten any bigger or darker and I have an vet appointment tomorrow at 2;00, I'll follow up then

 

[kathrynmariel]

I also want to see your reptile room and babies! I am getting my boyfriend into chameleons and Im definitely going to have a reptile room once im out of college!

 

[JacksJill]

In this case "room" is the wrong word.
Many chameleon keepers in the California and Florida keep their chameleons outside.

 

[Decadancin]

In this case "room" is the wrong word.
Many chameleon keepers in the California and Florida keep their chameleons outside.

Hmmm, sounds like my next project! I will need an outside area for Raistlin ...