Is this true?

[chamelisa]

Hi Elisa,

No, what I am saying is that, in order to engage in inbreeding, one should always recognize the risks of potential decreased viability, fertility, and overall genetic strength. What prompted my previous statements was the absurd justification of captive inbreeding as its having something to do with the evolution of a species. If the only way to sustain a captive population is through inbreeding, then that's a choice one needs to make while fully understanding the potential negative consequences of it. I personally would not recommend such a practice because, if the ultimate goal is to establish a healthy and viable population of a given species in captivity, inbreeding defeats the purpose of the goal to begin with-- leaving you with potentially-compromised founding stock.

At some point, one must weigh the potential outcome of inbreeding with those of ceasing to keep a difficult species in captivity (see the case study of Furcifer labordi)-- and that is a decision you must make, not me.

I hope you are well,

Fabián

Thanks for clarifying, Fabián. I do understand what you're saying. While I have thought about it, generally I don't like the idea of inbreeding in captivity.

It's no wonder many people don't jump up to offer their opinion about my predicament. Guess I'm on my own on this one.

All is well over here. Waiting on some spinosus hatchlings any day. Captive bred of course!

 

[merumontanus]

Thanks for clarifying, Fabián. I do understand what you're saying. While I have thought about it, generally I don't like the idea of inbreeding in captivity.

It's no wonder many people don't jump up to offer their opinion about my predicament. Guess I'm on my own on this one.

All is well over here. Waiting on some spinosus hatchlings any day. Captive bred of course!

Yes! Congratulations on the spinosus-- if anyone was going to be successful with them, it was you. Unfortunately, I lost my long-term, wild-caught female this week. She had two pseudo-calcified eggs inside her. It was quite a disappointment.

By the way, I should mention that I am not insinuating labordi to be on the same level as wiedersheimi. In fact, their relatively common presence in captivity and similarities in husbandry to other members of the cristatus complex tell me your efforts should focus on acclimation of future imports, trade with other keepers and refining of management techniques (where you are breaking ground already), instead of inbreeding. That should be your last resort, and I wouldn't say you're there yet.

Cheers,

Fabián

 

[chamelisa]

...your efforts should focus on acclimation of future imports, trade with other keepers and refining of management techniques (where you are breaking ground already), instead of inbreeding. That should be your last resort, and I wouldn't say you're there yet....

I posted a response here since I'm kind of going OT in this thread.

 

[crazydart]

If the only way to sustain a captive population is through inbreeding, then that's a choice one needs to make while fully understanding the potential negative consequences of it.

Very well put. Inbreeding is thrown around here like its just something to do in your spare time. I personally feel there should be a real reason... a REAL reason. Not because you think you can make a more blue one, or one with 5 horns, or one with a super long toung... though I might like to see that.

On the note of people asking for "proof" I think its already been said it seems there is not the proof they are looking for. I would argue they wouldnt know the proof if it hit them in the face. Does anyone here... and I mean anyone including any breeders actually know the differant genetic traits their chosen species has and the variation that exsists? Then once you know that, do you know whats dom, co-dom, recessive, etc... for each disorder that might crop up? The Panther chameleon book I sighted has TONs of information just on the physical acpects for panthers. More then I even care to read... and these are just the differances between the locales. I just dont think you are going to find any data from a reliable source sighting good vs bad... not enough is known about chameleons. The cost for testing these animals to find genetic flaws would just be way too much for anyone to ever do. Only the US Gov would be stupid enough to fund something like "Is is good or bad to inbreed chameleons, and what might happen if we do?"... I say that joking of couse... I work for the USDA.