Jackson and 10.0

[Andee]

So I am renewing everyone'should uvb in the coming months, I know Ryker my panther is getting a 10.0 though it won't matter soon because soon I will be upgrading to a quad fixture for him and his plants from LYR. However Hope'so upgrade to an Arcadia bulb will be a bit of a longer time span. So I was wondering how sensitive Jacksons are to artificial uvb, and since I have her in a reptibreeze if I could also give her a 10.0? I know my Blue tongue skink is getting 5.0 again but this time he's getting a tube fixture

 

[KLowery88]

My thinking would be to offer the stronger light, but maybe plant more heavily and offer cover throughout the enclosure, giving a few open spots for her to bask. Some of the more experienced montane keepers can chime in though. You could also ask Todd at LYR to see what he thinks. What size enclosure is she in?

 

[Andee]

She's in a heavily planted 18x18x36 enclosure. The plants won't stop growing in it o.o I had to trim the schefflera away from her basking spots just a couple days ago.

 

[JGuinan007]

I always though montanes don't need as much UVB or D3 as veileds, or panthers. I would think 10.0 would be overkill.

 

[Andee]

That's what I'm wondering. I know they don't need as much supplementation but I'm not sure about the UVB. So I'm hoping someone with montane experience will chime in. Hope has some severe MBD that she is still plagued by somewhat. The liquid calcium and regular natural sunlight has helped, but her jaw is still soft and I am sure she's still got brittle bones. However she doesn't fall anymore and doesn't rest her arms as much.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Alot of keepers use 10.0 with montanes due to the altitude they're naturally from. With thinner air and being closer towards the sun, 10.0 is perfectly fine, if suited for the cage. Montanes usually hang out towards the middle and bottom of the cag. With a 10.0, you're ensuring they're getting some UVB rays with deeper penetration. Now, since hope is in a medium sized cage, I'd stick with your 5.0. If she were in a larger cage, I would say go ahead and put a 10.0 overhead. But there's not just enough enough room for a 10.0. Just keep giving her calcium and good lighting. And of course, any natural sunlight possible. Eventually she will heal up. Everything is slower with montanes.

 

[Andee]

Thanks so much 8D that's what I needed to hear, I don't want to hurt her I just want to make sure she's getting everything she needs.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Thanks so much 8D that's what I needed to hear, I don't want to hurt her I just want to make sure she's getting everything she needs.

No problem! Just keep doing what you're doing! Is she getting calcium on her feeders each feeding?

 

[Andee]

She is getting liquid calcium three times a week and a multivitamin with d3 once a month

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

She is getting liquid calcium three times a week and a multivitamin with d3 once a month

Sounds good to me. Was the liquid calcium prescribed by a vet?

 

[Remkon]

I'd stay at 5.0 since most chams aren't that demanding of UV since they are mostly exposed to indirect sunlight. To much UV could possibly also be harmful for your animal.

More is not always better

Excessive UVA however can be a problem, causing blindness, skin damage, immune dysfunction, skin erythema , punctate keratitis, blepharospasm, cataracts, pterygium, photodermatitis, skin cancer around eye, conjunctivitus and precursor lesion - melanoma.

More is not always better

Too much UV-B to humans causes sunburn (erythema) and reduction of vitamin-D synthesis in the short term, development of skin cancer, cataracts and suppression of the immune system in the long term.

Recent research with Panther Chameleons (Ferguson et al) has shown that UVB is more effective than D3 supplement in promoting egg hatchability as well as avoiding the risk of vitamin toxicity associated with vitamin D3 supplements.

Ferguson in his scientific paper concluded that Panther chameleons require moderate levels of UVB. Commercial low level UVB producing bulbs (such as the Zoomed 5.0), when used correctly, produce adequate amounts for successful reproduction whereas too much UVB can negatively effect the hatchability of Panther chameleon eggs.

http://www.ukchameleons.co.uk./uvlightingresearch.htm?_sm_au_=iFVn7DfsSWMSV37H

To increase output and range use a proper reflector!

If you like to read all about UV: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
Beware!!! There is to much info!!!

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Most aren't very demanding of UV? Huh?

 

[Remkon]

Most aren't very demanding of UV? Huh?

They need UV but the intensity they require is smaller.
Giving to much UVB/A is also harmfull.

So you need a UV lamp, you also need to burn it for like 12 hours a day... But you do not want to give them the same lamp as you would give your bearded dragon.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

They need UV but the intensity they require is smaller.
Giving to much UVB/A is also harmfull.

So you need a UV lamp, you also need to burn it for like 12 hours a day... But you do not want to give them the same lamp as you would give your bearded dragon.

When you say " they" are you referring to montane species or all chameleons in general? UV is critical to almost all chameleon species. I would say only a select few aren't very demanding of it.

 

[Remkon]

When you say " they" are you referring to montane species or all chameleons in general? UV is critical to almost all chameleon species. I would say only a select few aren't very demanding of it.

Can't speak for all species but if your chameleon basks early morning or late afternoon and/or is mostly exposed to indirect sunlight (because of clouds, trees etc) you're probably going to need a 5.0 lamp.

Just be careful with upgrading your lamp since to much uw/cm2 may just be as harmfull as to little... (I know I burn like a shrimp on a sunny day from getting to much)... Adding a good reflector will also increase the range...

Exo terra also introduced their UVB Bulb Index to replace the old 2.0(dart frog), 5.0(rainforrest), 10.0(desset) gradations so it's good to see there will probably be more flavours to choose from:
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/explore/new_uvb_rating_system.php
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/explore/uv_rating_index.php

Sorry, I don't know how to explain it clearer... Read the links I've posted above I suppose...

 

[brownie64]

I use a 10.0 and have used one for years on my montane species and have had no ill effects. like was said as long as there is enough foliage where they can seek refuge they are fine. I can not imagine any UVB bulb putting off more UVB than the sun does in nature. Unless it is malfunctioning like what happened a few years back.

 

[JGuinan007]

The long and short of it is for montanes is go with 5.0 or 10.0 as long as you have plenty of foliage where they can seek refuge?

 

[KLowery88]

I've been using an Arcadia 12%, which is stronger than the 10.0, for my Veiled since he was the size of my thumb and he's doing very well. He loves basking right under the UVB fixture, flattened and soaking it up. He has plenty of space in his 48x24x24 to get out of the UV if he wants, but he usually chooses not to. He's healthy and growing, with no eye issues.

Every chameleon species is different though, and you always have to take into consideration the height of the cage, species, amount of plants, fineness of screen, etc.

 

[Andee]

Sounds good to me. Was the liquid calcium prescribed by a vet?

Yes the liquid calcium was prescribed by a vet. She recommended doing it everyday however. I don't think that'd be good for a montane and I talked to littleleaf about it and she agreed to only do it for 3 times a week.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I have been using 12% Arcadia over my jacksons and quads for years (and panthers and veileds). As long as there are places to get out of the light should they need it they should be fine. Our bulbs UVB readings are usually 20-50 and if you take a UVB measurement in full sunlight (I'm in Colorado so higher altitude that should be closer to montane habitats anyway) it is always 200-300+.