Jackson babies dying...help!!!

[NatureButch]

Your Chameleon - I had 20 Jackson babies born on February 20th unexpectedly

Handling - only to move to a larger tank this weekend; gentle push to see if they move given it is hard to see some of them breathing

Feeding - flightless fruit flies from Petco, over a hundred added at least twice a day, I've seen some hunting

Supplements - haven't dusted the fruit flies

Watering - spraying/misting 6 or more times per day, for last 13 hrs I've had fogged on plus a little misting, I've seen some drinking

Fecal Description - Small with white being pinkish

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 29 gallon glass tank, width of 20 gallon but taller height wise, layer of paper towels on bottom

Lighting - have bounced between a CFL bulb of 13 watts (back in now) and the power sun bulb (unsure of wattage); about 4-5 hrs a day

Temperature - temps have ranged from 60-75 from adhesive thermometer middle of tank

Humidity - at least 50%

Plants - One live plant from moms cage and fake plant

Placement - in my bedroom, door shut, about 2 feet off ground

Location - USA - CT

Current Problem - vet warned me that they all won't make it. However, in the past 24 hrs, 7 have died! Others don't look well (on bottom of tank, brown color). I thought perhaps the light was too strong so i switched back to CFL. I dont know if this is abnormal or im doing something wrong. They were ok for 2 wks. I took a picture of one I found dead this morning. It looks weird to me. My roommate says the rest are alive.

 

[leedragon]

can you post some pics? maybe easier to figure something out

 

[SaintJimmy]

can you post some pics? maybe easier to figure something out

That's what I was thinking. Maybe there is a physical indicator of why they are dying.

 

[ReptileLove18]

ive read on here that babies could die if some are really strong hunters and others arent and the weak hunters dont get enough food. maybe seperating them each into their own small enclosure would help? or a few into a container so that theres several containers with babies in it and they have enough of a chance to hunt. thats my thought on it! and as you said, some babies from every clutch dont make it, its sad..

 

[AngieL]

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you

I don't keep jacksons myself but I have read a bit about them on the forums. It would seem that overheating and dehydration are two causes of death for jacksons babies. If I was you I would get something better to check temps with because those analogue dials are not as accurate as we would like.

Also another factor in your case is that they were surprise babies from a mating before you got her. So it could be inbreeding, bad genes or that the mother wasn't kept well during pregnancy. If she didn't get the proper supps or nutrition then the babies would be born very weak from the get go.

 

[Jerm]

You can try putting the fruitflies in a ziplock bag and placing them in the freezer for a minute to stun them before feeding. That will give the neonates more time to "hunt" them before they scurry away. Juvenile jacksonii are a difficult one even for the advanced chameleon keeper.

 

[AngieL]

And the UVB. What percentage is it? I'm not a fan of the all in ones or the cfl bulbs myself and I think jacksons require a relit overly low output compared to other species. Most babies of any species should be kept under an old worn out one so it doesn't hurt their eyes.

 

[ChrisZ]

I think it's because you were using the Powersun bulb. Powersun bulbs are 100watt or 160 watt that is way too much for those little ones!

When raising Jacksonii babies you should only use a UV source that doesn't provide any heat at all. When the babies are getting older like 6-8weeks old you can add a low wattage basking light.

 

[carol5208]

Right now you are using TWO uvb sources and it may very well be too strong and killing some of them. Remove the powersun and use the 5.0. I would also get something more accurate than a strip to measure your temps. I would try that and see if you have any more that die. If they continue to die, then you know it was not the bulb. Two uvbs is overkill IMO especially one that strong and the fact that you have babies even makes it worse.

 

[ChrisZ]

Right now you are using TWO uvb sources and it may very well be too strong and killing some of them. Remove the powersun and use the 5.0. I would also get something more accurate than a strip to measure your temps. I would try that and see if you have any more that die. If they continue to die, then you know it was not the bulb. Two uvbs is overkill IMO especially one that strong and the fact that you have babies even makes it worse.

I think he already did. He said he switched back to the 5.0

IMHO using the Powersun (100 or 160 watt) is the reason a lot of babies died

 

[pamnsam94]

I don't want to sound too pessimistic, and I certainly don't want to oversimply things (many variables might be involved), but have you considered that the mother might not have been given any preformed vitamin A? Most would agree that a very small amount of preformed vitamin A given once or twice a month (depending on the source) is needed, or at least is very beneficial, in producing strong, healthy neonates. Although some say they never provide preformed A to their gravid females yet still get strong neonates, these people usually rely on commercial gutloads or make their own homemade gutload recipes that I suspect at least have trace amounts of preformed vitamin A. Some babies in my opinion are doomed from the start. They might have been bound to die no matter what action you take. However, for those neonates that are still eating on their own (I'm assuming that some of them are closing one or both eyes), I would dust a single feeding with a supplement like Reptivite without D3 because it does have preformed vitamin A. After that, if any of them respond well, I would dust feeders with that particular supplement either once or twice a month. You have to be careful though because too much of a good thing is bad, especially with Jackson's and most montanes because they are generally very sensitive to oversupplementation of vitamins in general but particularly D3 and preformed A. As long as you are providing UVB via a bulb (letting them make their own D3), the only other supplement I would use (either every feeding or every other feeding) is pure calcium (no D3). Good luck, but if none of the babies make it, don't beat yourself up because they may have been too weak from the beginning.

Perry

 

[NatureButch]

Update

One more died since my last post.

I made the following changes, partly based off the recommendations (thank you very much for them):

1) I bought new fruit flies in case other batch had something wrong with them. I dusted them with rept-cal with beta carotene (had vitamin d - local pet store didn't have any vitamins without it).

2) I sprayed down new crickets with zilla spray that has the beta carotene.

3) wiped down cage, fresh paper towels

4) hand fed each of the remaining babies: Fluker's Repta+Boost Fluker's Repta+Boost Insectavore & Carnivore High Amp Boost & Carnivore High Amp Boost. For some I could put a dab on their mouth and they would make an attempt to remove it, sometimes taking up to 15 seconds for the to start. Others did not and I gently had to open their mouth and put a little in. I separated out a few that seemed much healthier and more lively (only 2). The directions say to do 50% the first 4 days. I am going to try to do this again tonite. Some seemed a little more active afterwards. As of right now, my roommate said they were all alive.

The associates at Petco helped me look for preformed A vitamins but they didn't have any. One associate spent a lot of time trying to help me because she understood my situation. Her veiled that she had bought pregnant too had babies and they all died. You could tell she was still very sad about it. I suggested this forum community to her.

I welcome any further suggestions. I will post an update later.