Jackson Chameleon wont eat on his own

[nikki9124]

Your Chameleon - Jackson, Male,5months
Handling -once a day he loves being held
Feeding - crickets and mealworms 3 crickets 2 meal worm 3 times a day, Breakfast 7am Lunch 1pm Dinner7pm
Supplements - Flukers
Watering - drinks from spray bottle, I mist 3 times a day!
-
History -

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen
Lighting - uv light and heat lamp
Temperature - 75-80 night 65
Humidity - 60-70 60 night
Plants - fake plants and real
Placement - high top shelf
Location - cali



i have a 5month old jackson chameleon I bought it for my hubby for Fathers day and he was doing great then weeks past by and we notice he wast eating so we got reptaid and force fed him and he was back to his normal self problem i think he got use to having us to force feed and now he will only eat by hand
-___- he will not eat on his own we would leave cricket and it wont be touch meal worms in a bowll nothing i dont know what to do we try not feeding him by hand hoping he doing on his own but then he started getting weak so i had no choice as soon he sees my hand he crawl out as fast as he can to eat. any suggestion what i can do?thanks!

 

[xanthoman]

some suggestions pt 1.

pt1. i have a 5month old jackson chameleon I bought it for my hubby for Fathers day and he was doing great then weeks past by and we notice he wast eating so we got reptaid and force fed him and he was back to his normal self problem i think he got use to having us to force feed and now he will only eat by hand
-___- he will not eat on his own we would leave cricket and it wont be touch meal worms in a bowll nothing i dont know what to do we try not feeding him by hand hoping he doing on his own but then he started getting weak so i had no choice as soon he sees my hand he crawl out as fast as he can to eat. any suggestion what i can do? thanks! imo, hand feeding is not recommended. free roaming cage feeders present hygienic and other problems , imo cup feeding is recommended method. get his metabolism back in balance and his appetite will return, so you can acclimate him to cup feeding.
Your Chameleon - Jackson, Male,5months
Handling -once a day he loves being held thats an perception on your part, things are not always as they appear. its likely that he wants out of his cage, everytime you handle you take out of the cage, every time he goes back in, it creates stress. as a general rule, daily handling is not recommended and often a common factor in less than thriving montanes
Feeding - crickets and mealworms 3 crickets 2 meal worm 3 times a day, Breakfast 7am Lunch 1pm Dinner7pm this is an unbalanced unsuitable diet for a montane. imo i suggest you stop force feeding anything(including reptaid/othermeds) unless under the direction of a arav vet. this diet would cause serious issues in an otherwise healthy montane in less than a matter of a few mths, imo continuing any part of this diet, is likely to cause more harm than good and may mean the difference between being recoverable and less than recoverable. all foods/supps need to be assessed for vitamin and nutritional content and balanced accordingly, in measured qtys. its not good to just feed them all they will eat because they will eat it. especially if its not a healthy diet to begin with. once his metabolism has achieved a better balance i recommend 3 food days a week with a day of food rest in between. this gives him time to process his food, and any imbalances that go along with it. just to be clear cricks are not a good staple feeder and mealworms are even worse. i will make some specific food recommendations after he has had a chance to flush. also just to be clear waxworms are the single worst feeder.
Supplements - Flukers the quality of the info you give on your help form directly relates to the quality of advice you receive.
flukers makes a lot of products and like a lot of supp products on the market many of them sound very similar. the only way we can figure the current vitamin values of your current regimen is if you list all manmade products by their EXACT name as given on the label. example; flukers orange cube cricket diet, is not the same thing as flukers orange cricket quencher with calcium,(gel). both are flukers orange, and both are gelatinous, but 2 entirely different products.

the only way to figure vitamin content is if the products are listed EXACTLY as on the label with specific info as to how/how much/how often, they are each given. imo, your animals problems are largely diet/vitamin related and this is a very important part of figuring out the puzzle.
History - every little bit of info helps. there is always some history even if you bought the animal the first time you saw it, would be good to know. would also be good to know if you had seen the animal prior to that and any info the petstore sales person may have given, as well as any observation about its steup/conditions in the petstore.
Cage Info; is this an aluminum commercial cham cage or is it homebuilt/woodframed? also the size would be necessary info.
Cage Type - screen aluminum screen, or fiberglass screen.
Lighting - uv light and heat lamp specifically what kind of uv light reptisun or a different brand? 5.0 or 10.0? new or used? if used, how old? lineal or cfl if new cfl, did you give it a 24hr breakin period? please understand that not all reptile uv lights are suitable for montanes. /// specifically what kind of heat lamp? heat lamp implies infra red? just to be clear infra red does not supply uva and is not recommended for montanes. also no nite heat of any kind is recommended for indoor animals or outdoor animals above 50* a 10-12* drop in nite temps from lower cage temps is desirable.. imo a lineal reptisun 5.0 should be about 4"from the top of the cage in case of cage crawling. your only heat/basking light should be an incandescent house bulb ( clear or cool white) of no more than 40 watts placed to provide no more then 80* as measured by a digital thermometer with a remote sender in the sweet spot of the basking beam. a lineal plant light is also recommended and can be placed directly on top of the cage, so long as it does not block the reptisun or 25-40 watt uva so long as it does not block the reptisun or incandescent 25-40 watt uva basking (household) bulb.
Temperature - 75-80 night 65 depending on how you measure your temps, this is a suitable range. just to be clear, infra red temp guns have some specific pitfalls in regards to specific location temp measurement, among them they only measure the reflected temp of solid surface objects, imo, not really a measurement that you are overly concerned with. one thing they dont measure, is air temps imo primarily what you are concerned with.

 

[xanthoman]

some suggestions pt 2.

pt2
Humidity - 60-70 60 imo, if accurate, this is an excellent range, how do you measure your humidity? that being said, imo, daytime hydration is far more important than humidity.
Plants - fake plants and real imo, all that is required is one large $15 schleffera that fills 80-85% of the cage and some natural climbing branches. i recommend schleferra , because after much trial and error, it has proven to stand up better to soil-less soil replacement than most other cham safe plants. also, it has stiff leaves and branches, which imo, xanths prefer. imo xanths can get nervous when trying to move quickly on flimsy leaves/branches. imo, soil-less soil replacement is a crucial part of discouraging parasites or pathogenic infections.
Placement - high top shelf are you referring to the cage or the plant? imo, your cage should be placed so that the basking spot is in the top 8" of your cage and your cage should be placed so that the basking spot is above eye level.
Location - cali this makes for a good opportunity for outside daylight (partial shade provided ). if you can get your animal about 2 hrs a week of natural daylight, not shined through glass, then you can eliminate any d3 from your regimen, thus scratching it off the list as a possible issue. everything you can eliminate from the list of possible issues, imo, puts you one step closer to a likely recovery.
imo, its important to understand that this issue is most likely diet/supp related and that no med will offer a long term cure as long as those issues exist. in order to get a handle on things long term, you must correct the issues that caused it in the first place. by the time a montane displays symptoms obvious to a keeper who does not have significant experience the issues have become acute, meaning serious, possibly life threatening and not easily reversed. this animal has clearly had an imbalanced diet. the typical petstore scenario is the store knows that their diet is lacking so they usually try to make up for it by oversupplementing, because they know the animal will likely be sold before it becomes an issue. so you are stuck correcting not only your own mistakes but the mistakes of the store you got it from. once an imbalance has been established the only way to correct it is to give the animal a chance to flush out and process any imbalances. . this is something they are good at, assuming no permanent damage has yet been done.

imo, its also important to understand that no amount of additional imbalanced diet or supps will help this problem. the less food or supps it has during this period the quicker it will go, the longer he stays in this state of imbalance, the more likely he will become less than fully recoverable.
brief recap;
1. recommend giving him as much space as possible and minimizing handling (except as required for cage cleaning or outside sun)
2. no food or vites, except, if you can get him to eat, without force feeding, 2 med feeders a week, in 1-2 matcheads of plain calcium imo force feeding of anything/anykind is likely to make the problem worse, as are any meds not prescribed by an reptile, cham experienced vet. imo it would be best to let him flush, until other members had had a chance to review your updated info, and recommend a more balanced plan. should have a dripper during all daylight hrs.
3. recommend giving specific info as to the exact type of lighting and placement.
4. you've got a ways to go, if he becomes unresponsive or does not show improvement within the next week, then a cham vet is recommended.
5. if you are anywhere drivable to the bay area?, i strongly suggest joining southbay chameleon keepers (sbck) it is well established with many knowledgeable and experienced keepers.
6. i also recommend a fecal for all new animals to get them off to the best possible start and every12-18mths after.
7. as soon as you update your info i will likely have some more suggestions . also feel free to pm if there is anything specific you are not clear on. hope that helps please keep us updated. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

d3 wild card

imo, the wild card in all of this is the d3. its likely that he got too much at the petstore but thats just an assumption, and from your current info, not possible to figure his current d3, if any.
too little or too much d3 has the potential to rapidly become a very serious issue, and imo, it would be prudent to figure out where we are on this issue asap. so more specific supp info is required.

 

[Ulrich]

I think there is a danger in force feeding Chams. I would never do that without a vet. I agree with the previous post that D3 might be the information we are missing. I once over supplemented a female dwarf Jackson and it was devastating.

 

[carol5208]

xanthoman, I don't have any montanes, but I am just curious why you would say no crickets as a staple? Isn't that what most people use? What do you you use as your staple then, roaches? .

 

[xanthoman]

more trolling /some thoughts on cricks/nutritional study

xanthoman, I don't have any montanes, but I am just curious why you would say no crickets as a staple? Isn't that what most people use? What do you you use as your staple then, roaches? .

sure that is what most people use for a staple is cricks imo, improperly balanced/gutloaded/and usually over dusted.

montanes are metabolically sensitive, which means they dont deal well with severe or long term imbalances. imo, montanes are no different. generally speaking most of the same rules apply, montanes are just more sensitive to deviation from them.

imo far too many keepers base their diet on cricks?, which are 200% higher in phosphorus than the desired target ratio of Ca/p 2;1 and excessively exoskeletal

imo, whether montane or not, no single feeder should make up more than 40% of the overall diet and imo cricks a are poor choice for that due to their adverse ca/p ratio and exoskeletal structure.

also if you look at a significant # of floats from chams with suspected metabolic/digestive issues its not uncommon to see lots of of undigested cricket legs. cricks are just hard to digest. crick legs are highly exoskeletal have hard sharp spines and its not uncommon under a microscope to see balls of crick legs intertwined together resembling a ball of barbed wire. imo this is especially common in animals that are frequently over fed, and/or impacted.
dubia have similliar appearance but they are not as hard exoskelatally speaking the barbs on their legs are much softer, not as sharp, and microscopy usually reveals them to be much more digested, i have never seen dubia leg intertwined in the same manor. plus they are just better nutritionally.

imo the overwhelming majority of issues in the help forms are either diet or supp related, and basing their diet off of mostly cricks is just asking for an eventual metabolic breakdown. if you look at the metabolic issues commonly found in the help forms imo, you will find several common denominators;

1.a diet based mostly on cricks, most likely imo improperly prepared at that. imo a good way to exaggerate all metabolic problems, not to mention the eventual likelyhood of hyperphosphatemia. also its common to see frequent feeding of highly undesireable feeders like wax worms. imo, anyone who feeds wax worms has not done any nutritional cham study and likely does not have an understanding of proven basic cham nutritional requirements (just to clarify, waxworms are depending on source* a minimum of 800% too high in phosphorous and even higher in fat than protein).
you will also notice that many of the diets in the help clinics are based 80%+ on cricks? i mean really???? this strongly indicates a complete disregard/lack of study of established cham feeder nutritional values!!!!????.
2. imo, an indication of excessive or excessively imbalanced preformed vitamin supplementation
3. either a complete lack of knowledge of commonly accepted basic nutritional principles or just plain disregard thereof.
often when people write /pm me for help, one of the things they want to do is qualify their post about all they study on diet/supp/nutritional info they have done. yet upon reviewing their post it becomes obvious that many, even most, have not grasped their own research and either do not understand, or just plain disregard established nutritional/dietatary/supplemental guidelines imo the vast majority of the metabolic problems in the health clinic could be avoided by just some IN DEPTH study of both the beautiful dragons food chart and Sandrachameleons exceptionally awesome nutritional blog

xanths are no different, generally speaking most of the same rules apply, they are just more sensitive to variations from them..
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/

notice i say in depth study. i think the point that many keepers fail to grasp is that study is not the same as just casually one time reading something that is easily forgettable.
imo, study means read it, until you have a basic understanding and retention of it, and to return to it as long as their are still things to be gleaned or retained from it. if their is still things you dont understand from it, then take a few min to google (and study) outside sources.* note in the above statement i mentioned " depending on source", this is why i advocate studying form multiple sources, not just cf or the links provided from there.
multiple sources often have conflicting, but often both viable info, so imo having a broad study base certainly helps. after a while you just get a sense of which one applies best to the situation plus it helps to build up a substantial libray of reference links.
imo, just having casually one time read a few posts or one time casually visited bd nutritional charts or Sandrachameleons nutritional blog does not constitute study.

imo, a little actual effort, like actually taking it seriously, (as if your chams life or at least your wallet) depended on it, goes a long way. imo taking a few notes doesnt hurt understanding the issue either. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

gavaging

I think there is a danger in force feeding Chams. I would never do that without a vet. I agree with the previous post that D3 might be the information we are missing. I once over supplemented a female dwarf Jackson and it was devastating.

every time you force feed a cham, it cause severe distress which takes days or even weeks to recover from. it also usually cause significant physical injury. in addition chams breath from a hole under their tongue, which can easily aspirate food or water.

imo gavaging (force feeding) a chameleon should only be done as a life or death remedy by very experienced keepers or under the supervision of an experienced cham vet.

 

[carol5208]

sure that is what most people use for a staple is cricks imo, improperly balanced/gutloaded/and usually over dusted.

montanes are metabolically sensitive, which means they dont deal well with severe or long term imbalances. imo, montanes are no different. generally speaking most of the same rules apply, montanes are just more sensitive to deviation from them.

imo far too many keepers base their diet on cricks?, which are 200% higher in phosphorus than the desired target ratio of Ca/p 2;1 and excessively exoskeletal

imo, whether montane or not, no single feeder should make up more than 40% of the overall diet and imo cricks a are poor choice for that due to their adverse ca/p ratio and exoskeletal structure.

also if you look at a significant # of floats from chams with suspected metabolic/digestive issues its not uncommon to see lots of of undigested cricket legs. cricks are just hard to digest. crick legs are highly exoskeletal have hard sharp spines and its not uncommon under a microscope to see balls of crick legs intertwined together resembling a ball of barbed wire. imo this is especially common in animals that are frequently over fed, and/or impacted.
dubia have similliar appearance but they are not as hard exoskelatally speaking the barbs on their legs are much softer, not as sharp, and microscopy usually reveals them to be much more digested, i have never seen dubia leg intertwined in the same manor. plus they are just better nutritionally.

imo the overwhelming majority of issues in the help forms are either diet or supp related, and basing their diet off of mostly cricks is just asking for an eventual metabolic breakdown. if you look at the metabolic issues commonly found in the help forms imo, you will find several common denominators;

1.a diet based mostly on cricks, most likely imo improperly prepared at that. imo a good way to exaggerate all metabolic problems, not to mention the eventual likelyhood of hyperphosphatemia. also its common to see frequent feeding of highly undesireable feeders like wax worms. imo, anyone who feeds wax worms has not done any nutritional cham study and likely does not have an understanding of proven basic cham nutritional requirements (just to clarify, waxworms are depending on source* a minimum of 800% too high in phosphorous and even higher in fat than protein).
you will also notice that many of the diets in the help clinics are based 80%+ on cricks? i mean really???? this strongly indicates a complete disregard/lack of study of established cham feeder nutritional values!!!!????.
2. imo, an indication of excessive or excessively imbalanced preformed vitamin supplementation
3. either a complete lack of knowledge of commonly accepted basic nutritional principles or just plain disregard thereof.
often when people write /pm me for help, one of the things they want to do is qualify their post about all they study on diet/supp/nutritional info they have done. yet upon reviewing their post it becomes obvious that many, even most, have not grasped their own research and either do not understand, or just plain disregard established nutritional/dietatary/supplemental guidelines imo the vast majority of the metabolic problems in the health clinic could be avoided by just some IN DEPTH study of both the beautiful dragons food chart and Sandrachameleons exceptionally awesome nutritional blog

xanths are no different, generally speaking most of the same rules apply, they are just more sensitive to variations from them..
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/

notice i say in depth study. i think the point that many keepers fail to grasp is that study is not the same as just casually one time reading something that is easily forgettable.
imo, study means read it, until you have a basic understanding and retention of it, and to return to it as long as their are still things to be gleaned or retained from it. if their is still things you dont understand from it, then take a few min to google (and study) outside sources.* note in the above statement i mentioned " depending on source", this is why i advocate studying form multiple sources, not just cf or the links provided from there.
multiple sources often have conflicting, but often both viable info, so imo having a broad study base certainly helps. after a while you just get a sense of which one applies best to the situation plus it helps to build up a substantial libray of reference links.
imo, just having casually one time read a few posts or one time casually visited bd nutritional charts or Sandrachameleons nutritional blog does not constitute study.

imo, a little actual effort, like actually taking it seriously, (as if your chams life or at least your wallet) depended on it, goes a long way. imo taking a few notes doesnt hurt understanding the issue either. jmo

I will say this much that a panther that I got from another member had terrible edema. I had read that edema can be an imbalance of phoshorous. Everytime he eats alot of crickets I notice the edema comes back slightly. I really believe that there is some connection, atleast with this particular chameleon anyways.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

My eyes are bleeding but the info was good.


In keeping my Mnt. Meru's I've noticed they tell me what they want to eat.

I offer: Crickets/Silkworms/Dubia/small superworms/big green flies my son happliy catches for a nickle each.

I have seen the animals ignore crickets for days, then eat a few. They do the same with each food type. I'll offer some silks, they'll eat a few. Next day they don't want any but will take a superworm or three. then a few days later they won't touch the supers, but will eat a roach....then they want a cricket....

Honestly I never know what they will eat, I let them tell me. Best I can do is keep a variety of food items and offer them in their feeding cup one at a time.

No chameleon "likes" being handled. That's just us as owners wishing for a connection with our pet. Most chams would rather disappear into a ficus tree and never see a human again. Handle the animal only when it is a must.

I try and take my animals outside for 2 hours a week here in S. California. The heat right now makes it not doable except early in the mornings but still, the 2 hours of unfiltered sunlight makes all the difference..just make sure they have shade and watch the outdoor temps. Hydration is a biggy. I'm not saying spray them down, but have a drip system running with cool water.