Jackson supplementing confusion

[felix]

I picked up a jackson's chameleon today and just had a question on supplementing. I currently have the Sticky Tongue Farms miner-all for indoor reptiles it's also phosphorous free with Vit. d-3. I was wondering if I should dust with this every other feeding. Also, what else should I dust with.

Thanks a million,
Jack

 

[Solid Snake]

Whats up Jack,

Jacksons are very touchy when it comes to supplementation, compared to other chameleons.

Everyone does it slightly different, however sticking with these schedules has shown to be safe.

Repashy Calcium Plus, on one feeder, once a week.

or

Plain calcium, no phosphorous, or D3, on 2-3 feeders a week, evenly spaced-with a multivitamin on one feeder, every six weeks.

If the animal gets outside time at all, I wouldnt give D3 more than once every two months, if its indoors all the time, I would give D3 once every 6 weeks.

Any more supplementation, and people tend to start seeing problems.

You can pull up a few peoples thoughts on it by searching around a bit.

Congrats on your new cham!
I think its awful you didnt post a picture

 

[sandrachameleon]

I picked up a jackson's chameleon today and just had a question on supplementing. I currently have the Sticky Tongue Farms miner-all for indoor reptiles it's also phosphorous free with Vit. d-3. I was wondering if I should dust with this every other feeding. Also, what else should I dust with.

Thanks a million,
Jack

Hi
Gutloading your prey well and using a wide variety of prey will likely take care of the majority of your jacks needs, especially if you include snails, terrestrial isopods, butterworms and other high calcium prey.

I basically agree with SS.

I wouldnt use the mineral with D3 too often - and I think every other day would be too often. Since you already have it, You could use the s t miner-al indoor (with D3) on one or maybe two feeders weekly and use a vitamin powder on one feeder once or maybe twice a month. But I dont keep jacks so my opinion is only from years of reading what others do - listen to people who successfully keep jacks before you listen to me

 

[Solid Snake]

I basically agree with SC.

I have over supplemented my jackson before, and the results were horrifying.

What SC says about the gutloading, is key.

With the right diet, no supplementaion is needed period.
But to the extent of my knowledge, no one has figure out how to provide said diet in captivity, so we supplement.

Here is Jdog1027's video on jackson chameleons. It has superbly presented info, and touches on everything a bit, including supps:

 

[Chali2naRap]

Ive had good success with my jackson, hes healthy as can be, his pigments are also astonishing for his age. I powder coat every one of my feeder insects every day. I use multi-vitamin with D-3 on wednsday and saturday. the rest of the days he gets calcium without D-3. i also have my crickets gutloaded with cucumber, lettuce, apple, bannanna, broccoli, pear, strawberry and cantelope. every once in a great while i will provide them with carrot. my jackson is strictly indoor and only gets maybe 5 minutes of daylight tops when i take him out which is once in a great great while. just keep that in mind, the more sunlight the less D-3. and of course hydration is key. hope this helps a little. give me some feedback on your jackson if you take this course of action. thanks

 

[Solid Snake]

Ive had good success with my jackson, hes healthy as can be, his pigments are also astonishing for his age. I powder coat every one of my feeder insects every day. I use multi-vitamin with D-3 on wednsday and saturday. the rest of the days he gets calcium without D-3. i also have my crickets gutloaded with cucumber, lettuce, apple, bannanna, broccoli, pear, strawberry and cantelope. every once in a great while i will provide them with carrot. my jackson is strictly indoor and only gets maybe 5 minutes of daylight tops when i take him out which is once in a great great while. just keep that in mind, the more sunlight the less D-3. and of course hydration is key. hope this helps a little. give me some feedback on your jackson if you take this course of action. thanks

Hi!
I am curious as to how long you have kept your jackson this way?
As well as the brands of supplements you are using.
Thanks

 

[xanthoman]

I picked up a jackson's chameleon today and just had a question on supplementing. I currently have the Sticky Tongue Farms miner-all for indoor reptiles it's also phosphorous free with Vit. d-3. I was wondering if I should dust with this every other feeding. Also, what else should I dust with.

Thanks a million,
Jack

stf miner-all is designed to be used with stf vite all, but the directions on the bottle arent jacksons specific, so i would recommend a little less for xanths. stf isnt as potent as some of the other supps, so for those using other supps these recommendations dont apply.

between the 2 products stf constitutes a full vitamin plan and adding additional commercial products is not recommended.

the miner-all i would use a matchead for five feeders 2x a week. the vite all, ideally you would have 2 separate stashs of feeders, one gutloaded with vit all, one not, but you can just gutload them as you need them, but i would not use vite all in your gutload for all of your feeders. i would use about 4 or 5 vite-all gutloaded feeders about every 10 days or you could just feed one vit-all gutloaded crick 2 or 3 x a week. this is all based on the assumption that you already have a non commercial, non vitamin enhanced gutload that you have prepared from cham healthy foods gleaned from sandrachameleons nutritional blog. when not feeding vite-all gutloaded feeders i would use the naturally fed ones. basing your entire supplemental plan on commercially available products is not recommended, imo, most have too many vites. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

reality check

Hi!
I am curious as to how long you have kept your jackson this way?
As well as the brands of supplements you are using.
Thanks

thats an excellent question. bear in mind that most newer keepers dont recognize borderline problems when their chams have them, also bear in mind that cham metabolic issues do not happen overnight. they often times take many mths to manifest themselves in some cases longer, and until they become a serious hard to reverse issue, they are going to be hard, if not impossible to recognize.

what this means is that your cham can appear healthy but still be on a dangerous metabolic path. he wont hold up a sign saying i dont feel good, you will just wake up one morning and there his problems will be . i would strongly recommend filling out the help form in its entirety as imo, your supplemental plan is a recipe for disaster.

depending on the multivite, 2x a MONTH could be too much. cucumbers and iceberg lettuce are of poor nutritional value, apples and cantelope are ok on an occasional basis, but are both high in vitamin a and sugars, which is bad if the animal is already getting too many vites.
bananas have well over 300%of the desired target Ca ratio
pears and strawberries are both high in oxalates and sugars. broccoli is goitrogenic.

not trying to harsh on you just trying to give you a heads up, you keep this up, and i will guaranty that this animal will be on the floor of the cage in less than a year, possibly less than 6 mths, and possibly in an irreversible condition, and you wont know its happening until you wake up one morning and it already has. to be honest, i believe your supp plan as posted, will eventually lead to renal failure.
jmo, ignore it if you want.

edit; oh and just for the record, assuming your supp plan is adjusted accordingly, natural unfiltered daylight is one of the single best things you can do for your animal.
ps feeding every day also not good, dusting every day even worse, regardless of product used. feeding your cham all he will eat is not recommended. i recommend a maximum of 5 food days a week. also not good to feed all he will eat at a single sitting. jmo
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

 

[Chali2naRap]

both zoo med. -repti calcium w/o D3, reptivite with d3. good to know that what im doing is bad. getting straight answers is good. thanks for the link for the vegetables and fruit. so D-3 twice a week on all food and calcium all the rest of days on all food. any recomendations for a brighter future on this plan?

 

[xanthoman]

stop.

both zoo med. -repti calcium w/o D3, reptivite with d3. good to know that what im doing is bad. getting straight answers is good. thanks for the link for the vegetables and fruit. so D-3 twice a week on all food and calcium all the rest of days on all food. any recommendations for a brighter future on this plan?

see, this is why i asked you to submit the help form.

all Plain cal is the same regardless of brand, except for phosphorus content and grind.

calcium with d3 is not the same as reptivite with d3, calcium with d3 is just plain cal and d3. reptivite with d3, is a fullhouse, full strength, multivite with preformed vitamin A and d3

giving a xanth any form of d3 2x a week is extremely excessive, giving it reptivite with d3 2x a week is murder.

learning a little bit about supplementation before you start forcing it on your cham, priceless.

if you want my help you will have to fill out the help form in its entirety. dont just mention names like zoo med, zoo med makes a lot of different supps as do most manufacturers. if i listed all of the commonly available supps you would see that many have nearly identical sounding names even from different manufacturers, and almost all have different vitamin potency, content, and ratios. i if you want my help you will need to list all of your supps by the manufacturer name and the exact name as written on the label. that is the only way i can look up the vitamin content of your supps unless you want me to give my advice based on supps other than the actual ones you are using. jmo

ps imo, your animal has already had extreme oversupplementation. imo i would discontinue all supplementation except for a matchead of PLAIN cal 1x a week, until you have had a chance to learn some supplementation basics.
tiny amounts of excess preformed vitaminA can take weeks to metabolize. you probably wont believe me unless it happens but excessive vitamins will bring your cham to its knees. its possible for there to be severe health complications before you even realize anything is wrong. once you wake up and your cham is on the floor of the cage it may be too late. not trying to be grim or melodramatic, just simply stating the facts as i have seen them more times than i care to count.

if you fill out the help form, i can just simply add my recommendations.

it all boils down to vitamin ratio/total intake. what i recommend and how, much i recommend of it are going to be based on your diet /gutload, so you need to be specific on your diet info as well.

the more/better info you give me, the more/better help i can be. jmo

just for the record, reptivites not my favorite product. not that is not a quality product, its just that imo its not particularly well suited to montanes, depending on the rest of the regimen, giving reptivite at a rate of a matchead every 6-8 weeks would be more appropriate.

 

[Chali2naRap]

all i know is that the reptivite has a jackson chameleon on it and has D3, the guy recomended it to me at the pet store and ive been giving it to him two times a week on every single feeder insect, however i did realize i didnt want to find out the hard way so i have stopped supplementing him for a few days already now. my gutload consists of sweet potato, green beans, grapefruit right now. roaches, crickets, superworms, butterworms, mealworms. ive had him on this regiment for a month and a half now. but i understand its not right. heres the supplements i have now, not able to give specific info on all the ingredients in them right now unfortunately. after a while of no supplementing i am going to start giving him the reptivite on two crickets once every 6 weeks, calcium on 2 crickets every week instead of every feeder insect every day, and d3 twice a week. -- im new to these forums and i love people helping me, sorry for tweeking you with the form.... but heres pics of what im working with. and im gonna start the new plan here in a week unless anyone suggests differently.

 

[Chali2naRap]

also i would like to add in that i have been doing months of research before i even purchased my chameleon and nobody knows wtf they are talking about except people on here and i literally just joined this week. you seem to be annoyed that im on here asking questions, sorry if thats the case. im not a little kid trust me. i know that you know just as well as i do that its hard to find accurate info about stuff like this unless you are talking to somebody with experience such as yourself. im not saying i dont appreciate you trying to help me but dont act like im some little kid who doesnt know and doesnt care and didnt do the time and research, i joined this forum to get straight answers and i know you can give them, sorry i didnt fill out the form once again. ive done so much research that i know more about my friends chameleons than they do themselves, accurate info is hard to come by and im not mad i feel underestimated. im just looking for answers bud thats all. once again, sorry about the form, if it werent for being on vacation i would have filled it out..... if you cant help me without it then so be it, i tried for the sake of my chameleon

 

[melonman]

Help

I have Mt. Kenya jackson chameleon i bought from a breeder he said it was that. I have no idea on the shedual of supplementing i bought exo terra(brand) both calcium with d3 and then exo terra multi vitamins. If you guys could please help me start or give me the weeks or amount of days i should be giving him these i would greatly appreiciate it... I plan to start tomarroe morning
thank you this is my mt.k. Jackson 10months(how old he is rite now)