Jackson unexpectedly gave birth. Help!

[reptibeth]

Our Jackson Chameleon gave birth last week to 19 neonates-16 of which made it. We lost 2 more right away and now, a week later, we came home to find one more laying on the bottom of the enclosure dead and another one not looking too good. We've only had their mom for 2 months and were shocked not to mention unprepared for this! We've done the best we can considering our location (in the mountains of Colorado) and limited access to reptile supplies.
We are looking for any advice on how to keep as many of these little cuties alive and happy as possible.

The stats:
Enclosure is a 16x16x34 screened cage, with a driftwood branch with lots of small branches, a long vine, and lots of (plastic) leaves for hiding and perching. We are using paper towels on the bottom and changing them out often. Because we are at 8,000ft above sea level in arid Colorado, we are using a repti-fogger constantly to keep it humid. We are also misting them often and doing our best not to squirt too big of drops at/on them. We are using a Repti-sun 100w UVA/UVB light and are keeping it well above the cage to regulate temps and to keep them from frying. We are using a small fan (at a distance) to cool them down when needed and at night. Daytime temps are between 74-79 with a basking spot around 82 and night temps are low 70's/high60's. Food has been a bit of an issue because we weren't ready and most ff cultures take a long time to produce lots of food. We actually had to drive 2 hrs away to even buy some! Right now we have 4 ff cultures in the enclosure and we have some more on the way in the mail. They aren't eating much though and most of the time they let the ff's walk by/on them with no notice. We have found a few poops so some are obviously eating. We tried pinhead crickets but they were SO tiny they mostly disappeared.
So, ANY advice or words of encouragement would be much appreciated. Thanks for your time.

 

[Elizadolots]

There are a couple of members who've had Jackson's give birth. xanthoman jumps to mind. You might send him a PM. https://www.chameleonforums.com/members/xanthoman/

 

[summoner12]

Our Jackson Chameleon gave birth last week to 19 neonates-16 of which made it. We lost 2 more right away and now, a week later, we came home to find one more laying on the bottom of the enclosure dead and another one not looking too good. We've only had their mom for 2 months and were shocked not to mention unprepared for this! We've done the best we can considering our location (in the mountains of Colorado) and limited access to reptile supplies.
We are looking for any advice on how to keep as many of these little cuties alive and happy as possible.

The stats:
Enclosure is a 16x16x34 screened cage, with a driftwood branch with lots of small branches, a long vine, and lots of (plastic) leaves for hiding and perching. We are using paper towels on the bottom and changing them out often. Because we are at 8,000ft above sea level in arid Colorado, we are using a repti-fogger constantly to keep it humid. We are also misting them often and doing our best not to squirt too big of drops at/on them. We are using a Repti-sun 100w UVA/UVB light and are keeping it well above the cage to regulate temps and to keep them from frying. We are using a small fan (at a distance) to cool them down when needed and at night. Daytime temps are between 74-79 with a basking spot around 82 and night temps are low 70's/high60's. Food has been a bit of an issue because we weren't ready and most ff cultures take a long time to produce lots of food. We actually had to drive 2 hrs away to even buy some! Right now we have 4 ff cultures in the enclosure and we have some more on the way in the mail. They aren't eating much though and most of the time they let the ff's walk by/on them with no notice. We have found a few poops so some are obviously eating. We tried pinhead crickets but they were SO tiny they mostly disappeared.
So, ANY advice or words of encouragement would be much appreciated. Thanks for your time.

I think the temps are a tad high. I would remove the MV lamp you are using (the 100w zoomed) This is too much for this species. These are montane and need cool temps. I would put these guys in a rubbermaid 55qt. tub. I like to melt holes in the lowest spots of the tub for water to drain out. Place a 5.0 Reptisun linear tube across the tub with a 40w light bulb in a clip light on the corner pointed in. Go to your HD or garden center and buy tha rubber coated wire they use for securing veggies. Ditch the fan. Keep the ambient temp in the mid 70s and don't let it get too hot.... I wouldn't go higher than 85ish.

The babies won't eat right away... although it has been a week. Sometimes it can be a couple of days and they don't ALL make it all the time... so don't be too discouraged if you lose a couple. Since you weren't expecting babies, the mother might not have been 'prepared'... as in, when a female is expecting it's a good idea to really watch the feeding and gutload and calcium to ensure solid hatchlings. If a female isn't as well kept and has babies, they might not all make it due to her health. I am not saying you did anything wrong, just that mom's health plays into baby health.

I think you'll do better with 'cooler' temps for these guys. Mist often and do a little googling about jackson chams. There are a couple of sites out there about them. Remember to change the lights out. The MV lamps are meant for desert animals like bearded dragons. Check out the UV Guide for UV info... But first look into jackson neonate rearing.

This is smaller than a 55qt tub... but you get the idea...

This is how ya make holes.... take a wire hanger and a candle... heat up the metal.. and poke through...

I raised little Pat and Chris in this tub....

 

[xanthoman]

i dont think there is such a thing as a "REPTISUN 100W.UVA/UVB" ? could you be more specific, is it a powersun m.v., or a reptisun cfl,? is it 5.0 or 10.0 ?. whatever it is, i would raise it to the ceiling, or turn it off, until you can get a lineal (long straight tube) REPTISUN 5.0. i think a 15-25w incandescent household bulb(basking) is probably plenty for the set up shown. i kept them in a 10g aquarium. or a glass exoterra. even in a 10g aquarium its hard to keep up the neccessary concentration of feeders, see https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-do-you-keep-fruit-flies-your-containers-42353/#post394715, personally i wouldnt let the temps get above 80*, how are you measuring your temps? in order for neonates to have a healthy vigorous start, they need to be actively feeding within hrs and have ample food available at all times (like summoner12 says there is usually a few that take several days to getting around to eating, and some never do at all, i think it helps when they see their tank mates eating, and if they get too hungry, they get weak and dont feel like eating, and for the first week or so they often dont realize that they can get that feeder on the other branch simply by walking over there. so i think its important to have a high concentration of feeders early on, so as to get every body eating as much and as early as possible. probably at least 2-3 producing hydei culture for the first couple of weeks, if you are having an issue keeping up ff wise you might be better off overnighting at least 2500 pinheads, i know that sounds like a lot, but 15 hungry neonates can easily go through a hundred pinheads in a probably less than 5 minutes, they can easily go through hundreds in a day. you'll want some extras anyway so as the chams grow you will have some bigger(1/16" +1/8") cricks. when they are in the new neonate stage, i lightly mist them every couple of hrs (big drops are unacceptable, actually i dont mist them directly, i sort of coax them to one end of the tank , spray the tank walls and vegatation , then i coax them to the other side of the tank, and spray it. until about 7 pm. if they get dehydrated they probably wont recover. the setup that summoner 12 has pictured is very similar to what i do. i would turn off everything at night and adjust your lighting so that no fan is needed. i think 78 is probably a good safe max temp for the first several weeks. above all dont panick, i think if you make some changes now, that you should be ok with the majority of the rest of them.also cf member titan lives in denver and is fairly experienced in raising jacksons and dealing with the low humidity mountain air , so if he doesnt post shortly, you might want to shoot him a pm. if you look real carefully you can see the ff culture in th right hand side of the top picture note the terry cloth liner in the second picture. jmo

 

[reptibeth]

My bad- it's actually a Powersun PUV-11 100W lamp and we have it hung above the enclosure so it can't get too hot. This is the same lamp we use for our adult female and she is healthy and happy. We are an 8 hour round trip drive to Denver (where the closest Reptile supply stores are) so it's not just a simple "errand" to go out and get different/more equipment & food. I will post pics later of the setup so you all can see what we have going.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Then order the necessary equipment from one of our sponsors. Like LLL. They can ship it right to your door. I'd rather do that than lose the whole clutch. You asked for help, and some expierenced jacksons keepers have responded. Now take their advice before you lose any more.

 

[summoner12]

My bad- it's actually a Powersun PUV-11 100W lamp and we have it hung above the enclosure so it can't get too hot. This is the same lamp we use for our adult female and she is healthy and happy. We are an 8 hour round trip drive to Denver (where the closest Reptile supply stores are) so it's not just a simple "errand" to go out and get different/more equipment & food. I will post pics later of the setup so you all can see what we have going.

just turn the lamp off for now and use a normal household lamp... 40-50w will do.

Check out LLL Reptile, they have good prices and you should get the stuff in two days from when you order. you'll save on the price of the lamp, and the gas money getting to the store near you. the chams can go a couple of days without UVB, but they will need some heat.

 

[xanthoman]

just turn the lamp off for now and use a normal household lamp... 40-50w will do.

Check out LLL Reptile, they have good prices and you should get the stuff in two days from when you order. you'll save on the price of the lamp, and the gas money getting to the store near you. the chams can go a couple of days without UVB, but they will need some heat.

i agree, for safetys sake, it would be better too just turn off the powersun and use a house hold bulb for the short term, they will be fine for 5 days or so without any uvb, (but i wouldnt try to stretch it) you can just mail order a reptisun 5.0 for about $20 and have it there within a few days, without ever leaving your house, you can just get a single strip fixture at your local hardware store for probably < $20. that being said. i personally dont feel that a powersun is good choice for jacksons of any age, imo, the only fool proof safe choice is a lineal reptisun 5.0,- power suns are best left to those with uvb meters and the experience to use them properly. as far as your adult being happy and healthy, that may very well be true, or it may just appear that way, often times they will appear fine until there is a problem that is hard or even impossible to correct, and sometimes problems take months or even longer, to manifest themselves, so i would be cautious about assuming that everthing is a.ok. just because it appears that way. in the mean time, while you are waiting for more appropriate lighting to arrive, if the weather allows, it might not be a bad idea (if practical) to take their container outside and sit with it for a 1/2 hr or so every day or two, but its not absolutely neccessary and i wouldnt leave the container outside unattended or the crows will snap them puppies right up. i would also avoid any supplementation for the first couple of weeks until they are able to eat 1/8" cricks and then it would be appropriate to Lightly dust there cricks once or 2x a week with plain calcium (no d3) and work your way up to giving them calcium with d3 once or 1 x a month. when they are 6-8 weeks old then it would be ok to give their feeders an ultra sparing dusting of a reptile multivite ONCE every 6-8 weeks there after. herptivite (contains proformed vitamin A) would be better than reptivite (contains preformed vitamin A), repashy supermin would probably be better than either. it uses a little bit of both pre & proformed A, but in much lower dosages than the other two. if you are supplementing jacksons at all, then you are far more likely to over supplement than under supplement, so i would take sort of a minimal approach. jmo

 

[reptibeth]

The light that we started them out with for the 1st few days was a Zilla 20 watt tropical 25. Would this be better/ok? We switched to the ZooMed because we were worried they weren't getting enough light. We're wary to keep buying new things and to be honest, all this unexpected craziness is getting really expensive and to be continuosly ordering things online and paying the shipping is getting to be too much.
Also, before you folks get all preachy and snide, please remember that we didn't know she was pregnant and are doing the best we can under difficult circumstances.

 

[shanksfaml]

I really feel for you, I don't know what I would have done if one of my new chams suddenly gave birth, just out of the blue. Good luck, you obviously have a good heart with all that you have already put out.

 

[reptibeth]

new set up

Ok- so we got the new set up going. We have a 55qt tub with holes in the bottom for drainage, terrycloth towel on the bottom with a layer of paper towels on top, leaves, twigs, and a vine. We got the Reptisun 5.0 as well as a 25w incadescent, and the repti-fogger. We have a few ff cultures in the enclosure as well as some others that we've started for later. We still have 12 neonates, at least 7 of which seem good (as in they are eating, drinking, and moving around) the other 5 still don't seem to be eating so it might be too late. We are keeping temps down in the mid- 70's and the humidity is high. We also traded out our adult's light for a Reptisun 5.0, many of you will be happy to know. Thanks again for all the advice and we'll keep you posted on how they're doing.

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[reptibeth]

a few more pics

 

[summoner12]

WoW very nice work!

Just an FYI, if you don't have it, no biggie... but RO or distilled water will work best for that fogger so you don't foul it up with minerals. It is just something that happens to the foggers over time when using tap water. Be sure to clean it a couple of times a week too so it doesn't produce mold.

Also it would be a good idea to tilt up the heat lamp for your adult. This way she can bask in heat and UVB at the same time.

You don't have to clip your lamp to something like I have done below... but if you put the edge of the basking lamp hood onto the UVB fixture, that should be enough of an angle.

 

[Tlcham]

Hope the rest of the babies make it!!!!
Since me and reptoman are waiting for our eggs to hatch - I am amazed at the live birth!
Good luck!