Juvenile Jackson's Together?

[Deluge98]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum but am loving it here. I bought my first chameleon, a male Jackson's, about two months ago from a Petco. The store attendant was extremely helpful and seemed knowledgeable enough. He recommended the large ExoTerra terrarium, so I bought it. I have had no problems with the cage (aside from drainage) and Dennis the chameleon seems happy enough.

But the attendant told me something that stuck with me. He said that the cham I bought got along really well with the female that he lived with. He recommended I eventually come back for the female so they could remain happy together.

So last Saturday, that's exactly what I did. Petco was having a reptile sale, so I took advantage and snagged the female. I felt good doing this because she seemed extremely stressed in her conditions at Petco (Low humidity, high traffic, etc.). I felt like I was liberating her and bringing her to a good home. This changed when I put her in the cage with Dennis. While I expected her to "run into his arms," she swayed, opened her mouth, and turned completely black. Although she is much bigger than Dennis, he followers her around and attempts to grab her often. She responds by pushing him away and turning dark. This has happened continuously since they were first housed together last Saturday. She is dark throughout most the day, whereas Dennis is a vibrant green.

I am very annoyed with the Petco attendant's recommendation, given that everything I have read on this site recommends NEVER housing chameleons together. So what should I do? I certainly want to get her a separate cage, but it may be a few weeks before I am financially able to do so. Should I be concerned? I have seen no biting, heard no hissing, and it looks more playful than malicious.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Milesd]

Need to find some way of separating them the stress (turning black) is not good for her and will cause problems with her health, I'm not an expert by any means but I believe Jacksons can be housed together in large enclosures could be wrong ( some one with more experience will chime in) but even then if they show stress from each other that need to be separated

 

[Lathis]

You should separate them ASAP. It's a stressful situation for both of them, particularly the female. If she is much bigger than the male, there is a likelihood that she could hurt him under the right conditions.

I see you are in Salt Lake, so keeping humidity at the right levels will be tricky, since Jacksons like it cooler and wetter than panthers or veileds. You could get a screen cage until you can can afford another terrarium. It will require more attention to humidity levels, but it's easier to prevent overheating, plus drainage issues are much easier to deal with. It may also allow you to compare care between the viv and the cage to see which is better for your environmental conditions.

An extremely temporary option would be to set one of them up in a spare bathtub. If you position branches and vines correctly, they won't be able to climb out.

You've learned not to listen to pet stores in a relatively painless way - some people don't realize this until their chameleons are very sickor dead. Be sure to read the care sheets here very carefully, particularly for supplementing, and don't be shy about asking lots of questions.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/

Jacksons are just the best. You will absolutely love your new friends. Welcome to the forum!

 

[lpst]

yeah... all the person at petco did was make another sale, they are trained to do that. im sorry this happened. if you can keep them separate as much as possible you can even make a cheap enclosure to hold her over till you can afford to get the right one. I am fairly new to chams but I do house a lot of creatures, a cheep way is to get a small ficus clean out the substrate replace it with organic, cover with large smooth stones and make a frame with pvc pipe and cover with screen.
hopefully someone with more experience can chime in and help.

here are some things to read up on... good luck!

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/purchasing/

the following was taken from the link above:

Rescuing From Petstores:
Unfortunately the unique needs of chameleons are still often overlooked by pet stores and many chameleons in pet stores are in poor conditions with caging being inadequate or are already showing signs of illness. The first response of the compassionate customer is always "I should rescue it from these terrible conditions!" This may surprise you, but it is actually recommended to not purchase these animals in poor conditions. We all want to save an animal in need, but to the pet store that chameleon is just another product that needs to be sold for profit, and it's all about the numbers. If you purchase that chameleon to save it the pet store sees that as no more than a successful sale, and they will quickly replace it with a new chameleon to sell in the place you opened up. Nothing will encourage them to improve conditions since they can sell them to you without investing in proper care. However, if that chameleon does not sell then the store does not find that profitable and will stop stocking chameleons in those terrible conditions. It is much better to spend your money supporting responsible breeders or even other stores that put in the effort to make sure they have healthy animals in good conditions.

 

[Deluge98]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I am in class for a few more hours but will update you on what I decide to do. LPST, thank you for the excerpt. It was very helpful and I will avoid pet stores chains from here on out.

 

[Deluge98]

Thanks for the advice! For humidity, I currently have a fogger, pressurized spray bottle, and "little dripper." I have not had any real problems with humidity or ventilation. To fix the drainage problem, I will probably drill a hole in the bottom of the terrarium using a glass drillbit. I am leaning towards getting a large ZooMed Reptibreeze mesh cage for the female. What are your thoughts on this particular cage?

 

[Milesd]

Get it, that's what I use no complaints

 

[lpst]

ok, I just checked the prices and you can build an 18x18x36 cage with (2) 1/2" x 20' pvc pipes, cut one into 8 18" pieces and one into 4 36" pieces, (8) 1/2" 90 degree side outlet fittings and a roll of screen for $36.88 assuming you have tools to cut everything... then youll need the lights and plants n' stuff

 

[lpst]

Thanks for the advice! For humidity, I currently have a fogger, pressurized spray bottle, and "little dripper." I have not had any real problems with humidity or ventilation. To fix the drainage problem, I will probably drill a hole in the bottom of the terrarium using a glass drillbit. I am leaning towards getting a large ZooMed Reptibreeze mesh cage for the female. What are your thoughts on this particular cage?

good cage for the $$$ that's what I have mine in

 

[Deluge98]

I think I found a short-term solution, everyone! I assessed my finances and concluded that I will be unable to get a large mesh cage for this month. However, I also own a small mountain horned lizard that I am willing to sell online. I keep him in a small ExoTerra terrarium.
I think I will keep one of my chams in this terrarium temporarily. There is already an appropriate basking lamp and a decent amount of vegetation. I am thinking I can add some vines and branches as well as UVD lighting. I know it is a rather small terrarium, but do you think this would be a good temporary home for one of my Jackson's? Remember this would only be for a few weeks.

 

[lpst]

honestly I would not do that unless your going to break it down and wash everything with a 10% bleach solution

 

[Deluge98]

I would definitely give it a thorough cleaning before putting a cham in it. It is honestly between this and keeping the female in a bathtub

 

[lpst]

lol you gotta do what you gotta do, although a tree in the bathtub is cheap too...

 

[Lathis]

The tree in the bathtub thing does work as a temporary measure. That's what I used for about a week when I was waiting for my first LLL Reptile cage to arrive, and we still do that on evenings when we have parties and such (I put Ferds upstairs so the lights and strangers don't stress him out).

For Jacksons, in the long term, even though they are smaller chams, they can be very active climbers. The larger an enclosure you can provide, the happier they will be. In the short term, a smaller enclosure is fine.

Another thing to remember is that Jacksons give live birth (they don't lay eggs). Since the male and female were kept together, there is a chance that she may be gravid. Keep an a close eye on her for signs that she's "in the family way". Baby Jacksons are notoriously difficult to care for, but worst case scenario, people here on the forum have lots of experience (not me) and will help out as much as they can.

FYI - we want pictures!

 

[brownie64]

Thanks for the advice! For humidity, I currently have a fogger, pressurized spray bottle, and "little dripper." I have not had any real problems with humidity or ventilation. To fix the drainage problem, I will probably drill a hole in the bottom of the terrarium using a glass drillbit. I am leaning towards getting a large ZooMed Reptibreeze mesh cage for the female. What are your thoughts on this particular cage?

Before you drill a hole in that terrarium might want to make sure it being glass that it is not tempered. If it is it is next to impossible to drill a hole without shattering it.

The whole they need each other thing was pulled on me as well. I thought that being Jacksons as docile as they are it would be ok. It turned out disastrous. I lost my Male when I took him away from her, and she had 15 babies that I had the pleasure of watching die for no apparent reason. There is no end what some people will do to make a buck. Oh by the way if she does get pregnant because of this union of theirs she gives live birth she won't lay eggs. But unlike you I should have known better I had previously owned veiled for over 16 years. It really pays to do research no matter how experienced you are. I learned that one the hard way. But this is the site to get the answers you need. Good luck

 

[kinyonga]

How old are the chameleon's? Can you post photos of them? If they're old enough, maybe the female is repelling him because she's gravid??