kameleons jvo
Avid Member
THat picture from the kerstenii comes from my .
I ship true kerstenii from time to time to the US ,they are extremely rare and like Chris told very differant in care than the other species.
kenyan pygmy chameleon
- Thread starter jan65
- Start date
THat picture from the kerstenii comes from my .
I ship true kerstenii from time to time to the US ,they are extremely rare and like Chris told very differant in care than the other species.
laurie
Retired Moderator
Thanks Chris, I have read all about Rhampholeon acuminatus, but never noticed they were not from Kenya. I guess it was stated there was a Kenya import and I did not read where my chams came from. Sometimes I need to be careful to see what is there rather than what I think should be there.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
I really would need to see a photo of the animal that was in focus and from the side so I could see the head well in order to positively ID it. The photo that has been posted definitely is not Rieppeleon brevicuadatus or Ri. kerstenii, however. The tail looks longer to me than that of Rhampholeon temporalis, and the animal appears to have a dermal horn nubs on the nose and above the eyes, which also indicates that it is not Rh. temporalis, but I'd need a better picture to be sure. It is probably either Rh. moyeri or Rh. uluguruensis, but its possible it could be another species. Unfortunately if it is one of those two species, without knowing for sure which mountain they were collected on, you can't know for sure which. Those two species are frequently misidentified (even in museums and scientific literature), and recent work has shown that there are multiple additional lineages in this group that may deserve full species status.
For reference, here are photos of a couple of the species that are usually sold as "Kenyan Pygmy Chameleons".
True Rieppeleon kerstenii are very seldom seen in the captive market. This is what they look like, however:
Typically what you actually get are Bearded Pygmy Chameleons (Rieppeleon brevicaudatus):
And then occasionally you will get Rhampholeon temporalis as well:
Other species are less commonly exported as Kenyan Pygmy Chameleons, but not unheard of.
Chris
For reference, here are photos of a couple of the species that are usually sold as "Kenyan Pygmy Chameleons".
True Rieppeleon kerstenii are very seldom seen in the captive market. This is what they look like, however:
Typically what you actually get are Bearded Pygmy Chameleons (Rieppeleon brevicaudatus):
And then occasionally you will get Rhampholeon temporalis as well:
Other species are less commonly exported as Kenyan Pygmy Chameleons, but not unheard of.
Chris
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Chris- I am just taking this from the chameleonnews article, but would the only way to identify between the two species is the Inguinal Pits?
According to the article, R. moyeri do not possess this, but R. uluguruensis do. So would the only way to know is buying them and seeing what gets sent?
Chase
According to the article, R. moyeri do not possess this, but R. uluguruensis do. So would the only way to know is buying them and seeing what gets sent?
Chase
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
New research has shown that this isn't the case:
Fisseha, M., Mariaux, J. & Menegon, M. 2013. The “Rhampholeon uluguruensis complex” (Squamata: Chamaeleonidae) and the taxonomic status of the pygmy chameleons in Tanzania. Zootaxa, 3746, 439-453.
This study showed that there are a number of lineages within the Rh. moyeri/Rh. uluguruensis complex that may deserve full species status and that there is a lack of distinctive morphological characters to distinguish the lineages within the species complex.
Chris
Oh how I love me some pygmy chameleons! I personally didn't see this group that came in, but should have known they were not kerstenii. Not sure how they funneled through as that, as someone should have caught it (including myself) last week, but with a show this last weekend, we just missed it until this was pointed out.
We did refund the buyer the cost of the chams for our mistake (and I hear she was very cool / nice on the phone too - thanks.
We get groups of pygmys in and as Chris knows, they come in with all sorts of random ones that are very hard to distinguish from the common brevs we call "Pygmy Leafs". Temporalis are pretty easy, for the most part. Beyond those two though, it gets complicated quick when you are looking at 200+ of them!
Anyhow. Completely our fault. Should have never gone up as those, and are not listed anymore. I think from this point forward, for the leaf chameleon fans, we may list ones as brevs, ones as temporalis, and then list a 3rd as "R. sp. unsure" to be safe. LOL. Chris and I have discussed this many times through the years and I always appreciate your insight Chris!
Thanks guys
Scott - LLLReptile & Supply
We did refund the buyer the cost of the chams for our mistake (and I hear she was very cool / nice on the phone too - thanks
. We get groups of pygmys in and as Chris knows, they come in with all sorts of random ones that are very hard to distinguish from the common brevs we call "Pygmy Leafs". Temporalis are pretty easy, for the most part. Beyond those two though, it gets complicated quick when you are looking at 200+ of them!
Anyhow. Completely our fault. Should have never gone up as those, and are not listed anymore. I think from this point forward, for the leaf chameleon fans, we may list ones as brevs, ones as temporalis, and then list a 3rd as "R. sp. unsure" to be safe. LOL. Chris and I have discussed this many times through the years and I always appreciate your insight Chris!
Thanks guys
Scott - LLLReptile & Supply
received chameleons from lllr
Since I started this thread, I will give some follow up. Today I received my pygmy chameleon pair from lllr. They are definitely not the R kerstenii(Kenyan pygmy chameleon) that I ordered. After discussion with lllr and pictures submitted, what I received are being id as brookesia spectrum. They do not have the Kenyans in stock and have since taken them off the website. Management apologized for the confusion and we worked out an amicable solution.
As a newbie to this site, I can honestly say I have learned a lot and thank all of you for your input.
Since I started this thread, I will give some follow up. Today I received my pygmy chameleon pair from lllr. They are definitely not the R kerstenii(Kenyan pygmy chameleon) that I ordered. After discussion with lllr and pictures submitted, what I received are being id as brookesia spectrum. They do not have the Kenyans in stock and have since taken them off the website. Management apologized for the confusion and we worked out an amicable solution.
As a newbie to this site, I can honestly say I have learned a lot and thank all of you for your input.
Thanks Scott- regardless of what species- I will give them a good home, and continue to do business with lllreptile as I have in the past. JanOh how I love me some pygmy chameleons! I personally didn't see this group that came in, but should have known they were not kerstenii. Not sure how they funneled through as that, as someone should have caught it (including myself) last week, but with a show this last weekend, we just missed it until this was pointed out.
We did refund the buyer the cost of the chams for our mistake (and I hear she was very cool / nice on the phone too - thanks
We get groups of pygmys in and as Chris knows, they come in with all sorts of random ones that are very hard to distinguish from the common brevs we call "Pygmy Leafs". Temporalis are pretty easy, for the most part. Beyond those two though, it gets complicated quick when you are looking at 200+ of them!
Anyhow. Completely our fault. Should have never gone up as those, and are not listed anymore. I think from this point forward, for the leaf chameleon fans, we may list ones as brevs, ones as temporalis, and then list a 3rd as "R. sp. unsure" to be safe. LOL. Chris and I have discussed this many times through the years and I always appreciate your insight Chris!
Thanks guys
Scott - LLLReptile & Supply
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Can you upload a picture? To my knowledge Brookesia spectrum is not the the correct name, but Rhampholeon spectrum. But, I could be wrong. Nonetheless, I would like to see some pictures!
Chase
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
brookesia spectrum?? I doubt it!
Brookesia spectrum is an old name for Rhampholeon spectrum, so I suspect that is what they meant.
At any rate, Scott has sent me photos of odd pygmy chameleons that came in mislabeled a number of times in the past when they haven't been sure what they were. I've helped them sort it out a number of times, but there have been a number of cases where it definitely wasn't easy. These guys are anything but straight forward to ID in a lot of cases, so its not surprising that mistakes happen, and in general I know Scott and the rest of the LLL crew are pretty good at recognizing questionable ones when they see it, and seeking out help on IDing if they aren't sure. Sometimes things slip through though and it sounds like all was handled well as a result.
Chris
Yes Chris - it was handled well. For my purposes, I am not planning on breeding and selling. Ultimately the species has little meaning to me. I wanted the R Kerstenii, because I liked the way they looked and the fact that they could deal with with a less humid environment. Since I'm new to this forum, I'm not sure how to upload a picture. If people are interested in seeing what I received please let me know how to post a pic. Thanks
Do you think they could be R. spectrum then Chris? A shame the pics are not clearer. I have a species that i cannot get a positive id on (though you did try a little while back), but look similar to those in the dodgy pics. You thought possibly Rhampholeon uluguruensis or Rhampholeon moyeri, for the two i have. Both look like different species close up, but very similar in pic's (especially poor ones like i tend to take
)I'm interested!!
As Mikael suggested. Try uploading to an image hosting site like photobucket. If i can do it... anyone can
Trace
Captain Awesome
The Rhampholeon spectrum are from Cameroon. Has there been any imports from Cameroon lately? Knowing what I've seen at the shows lately they have been either the uluguruensis or nchisiensis. I'm not as familiar with the moyeri but they could be that.
Jan65. Email me the photos and I can post them for you. [email protected]
Jan65. Email me the photos and I can post them for you. [email protected]
Yes, just what i was thinking. Don't know about the U.S, but not heard of any Cameroon shipments for sometime here in the UK.
And yes, both uluguruensis & nchisiensis have recently appeared on a few suppliers stock lists that i know of, here in the UK. The moyeri are very similar looking to the other two, especially to the untrained eye.
Trace
Captain Awesome
In the upcoming months we are going to be making it easier for members to upload photos to the forum. Until then we have a short thread on how to do it here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-post-photos-video-3609/
Here are the two photos I was sent. As stated Jan65 is letting them settle in before any serious photo shoots but in the meantime can anyone identify these guys?
Here are the two photos I was sent. As stated Jan65 is letting them settle in before any serious photo shoots but in the meantime can anyone identify these guys?
