Lack of minerals?

[Cainschams]

Hey guys I dont know if this thread is in the right place but. I have a 1 year old male panther. I posted a thread about his mouth and possible scab. Well today when I went in to turn the room lights off he was chilling there in his sleep spot with his face towards the front which is unusual so I decided to take a look. He had a little bit of dirt on his chin and I noticed some disturbed dirt in the ficus planter. Now I am thinking the discoloration and what I thought might be a scab could have just been a dirt stain. He is sleeping so I will get him to open his mouth in the morning so I can see the inside of the front bottom lip. I do know that eating dirt might be from lack of minerals. I use Minerall but not often maybe 2 times a month 1 every 3 weeks and it is very very light. I try to use the best stuff to gut load with (cricketfood.com gutload, collards, kale, kelp, endive,dandelion greens, oranges, carrots, etc) and less supplements. I am going to dust with minerall tomorrow and see if this helps out. If anyone has and suggestion or thoughts please post.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

I've been talking to several keepers lately and this issue of vitamin deficiency has cropped up several times.

I am seeing a few issues among my own chams and of these , namely dirt eating , gular edema, vision impairment, low hatching rate, and swollen eye turrets, they seem to point toward a possible vitamin A deficiency.

Of the many dust supplements out there , some contain Vitamin A and some contain beta carotene. Whether chameleons can convert beta carotene to useable vitamin A is still up for debate. Some suggestions support the notion that previous info regarding Beta Carotene and Vitamin A may not have been correct.

It may be worth some research and a check of your supplements to see if yours contains vitamin A.

I am experimenting with doses of 1-2 I.U./g once a week. This is achieved by using the tiniest drop of vitamin A from a 10,000 I.U. gel cap. Finding a gel cap at a lower dosage would be even better for "eyeball dosing".

If you choose to pursue corrective action, please, be aware that hypervitamosis A is just as dangerous as hypovitamosis A. Too much vitamin A can cause liver damage among other symptoms. So, be careful....

 

[MWheelock]

The Vitamin A debate rages on....

I think most experts are now agreeing that hypovitaminosis A is more likely a problem than getting too much.

Also, it is an question as to whether the beta caratine can be used. This maybe different between different species of chameleons.

My thoughts. I think if you are sufficiently gut loading and giving your feeders a good mix of greens and vegetables, this should not be a problem. I do supplement/dust with multivitamin. When young 2X a week, when adult 1 time a week to 2 weeks. Please keep in mind Vitamin A doesn't remain stable for too long, so I'd replace the package 3-6 months after opening regardless as to how much you have left.

I think that pica (eatting dirt) as being a sign of being deficient of minerals is questionable. (There are speciallists on both sides of this). I think some just like the taste or may do this to settle their stomach, who knows.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

Thank you Dr. Wheelock for your informed opinion. Solid Info...again thx

 

[Cainschams]

Thanks guys I am glad I got great answers. I didnt know about vit A going bad so to say after so long. I will go out and get new supplements tomorrow for I know they are older. I do use dried kelp which contains vit A in my gutload along with iodine which I hear is good although the package is over 3-6 months old. This is the first sign Ive seen him eating dirt so I think I am going to replace and switch things one at a time and slowly to see if I cant get a better idea of what he is missing unless he just found out he likes dirt. Thanks again these answeres are very helpful.

 

[dodolah]

I've been talking to several keepers lately and this issue of vitamin deficiency has cropped up several times.

I am seeing a few issues among my own chams and of these , namely dirt eating , gular edema, vision impairment, low hatching rate, and swollen eye turrets, they seem to point toward a possible vitamin A deficiency.

Of the many dust supplements out there , some contain Vitamin A and some contain beta carotene. Whether chameleons can convert beta carotene to useable vitamin A is still up for debate. Some suggestions support the notion that previous info regarding Beta Carotene and Vitamin A may not have been correct.

It may be worth some research and a check of your supplements to see if yours contains vitamin A.

I am experimenting with doses of 1-2 I.U./g once a week. This is achieved by using the tiniest drop of vitamin A from a 10,000 I.U. gel cap. Finding a gel cap at a lower dosage would be even better for "eyeball dosing".

If you choose to pursue corrective action, please, be aware that hypervitamosis A is just as dangerous as hypovitamosis A. Too much vitamin A can cause liver damage among other symptoms. So, be careful....

Chroma, can you tell me how you can measure IU accurately?
do you have some kind of a measuring tool?

 

[ChromaChameleons]

Regarding measuring I.U. ... I simply "eyeball" the dosage.
Its not accurate and I do need to find another method.

The Vitamin A recommendation from literature I have read, is to administer 1-2 I.U./g once a week. That equates to about 200-300 I.U. for a typical adult Panther, by weight.

Vitamin A is available in different size gel caps. Utilizing a 10,000 I.U. gel cap would produce approximately 40 doses. A 400 I.U. gel cap would produce about 2 doses. Its far from accurate. But the eyeball method can be further simplified by administering once a month. Then a 10,000 I.U. gel cap would provide 10 doses .

Again , be careful with Vitamin A. It can be overdosed over long term , due to the nature in which it is stored in the body.