Large feeders

[jamest0o0]

I have a CB Parsons coming in a few months. I'm trying to take note of everything I'll need and be ready for everything in the years to come. These animals are my life and want to do everything I can. My understanding is that adult Parsons can be quite picky and need some huge feeders. Right now my largest feeders are orangeheads, dubia, and Halloween hisser. Are there any places to buy larger exotic feeders for these guys? I'm worried I won't be able to find large snails, hoppers, butterflies, moths etc up here in PA to breed myself. Maybe some other roach species? It'll be awhile into the future before I'll have to worry about this(I think), but I want to be prepared with a plan.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

In PA there are lots of katydids, mantids, butterflies, and moths. I lived there for 10 years and am close by, in Maryland. All of my parsons preferred orange head roaches and discoids to dubia. Roaches are probably the only relaistic feeder to count on. Other feeder, such as stick insects, thrive on brambles and rose, which you can't cultivate easily indoors and they do not thrive on store greens, contrary to often given advice. Just try to offer 3-4 types of feeders a week and not 2 days in a row. WC are way more prone to prey boredom than CB.

 

[jamest0o0]

That's relieving to hear. Do you have any tips for finding those insects you mentioned? I'm in pittsburgh closer to the city and I can't remember seeing anything large. I can go out to the woods though, but not really sure where to look. I think as a kid I remembered seeing katydids in grass fields. I'll Google PA insects though I'm sure I can find some worthwhile stuff.

Forgot about discoids, I'll add them and maybe some other roaches. I have around 10 feeders usually, but most of them are small/medium with exception to the roaches and hornworms. I could probably get some large silkworms and jumbo butterworms too.

@Extensionofgreen would you happen to mind sharing your opinion of supplementing these guys. Really, anything you'd feel like sharing would be beneficial. Jannb has been awesome helping me so far and I've been reading everything I can find on parsonii. I'm still relatively new to chameleons, but have been working with other reptiles/reefs/animals since I was a little kid with my parents. I don't want to seem like I'm the wrong person for this animal. Only recently learned how hard it is to find concrete care tips on them

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I'd leave my outdoor lights on at night and see what the lights attract, but you might have more competition in the city, because there's so much light pollution.
If my supplementation, you mean vitamins and calcium, I like to use a handful of products and rely on 3 main ones as staples. I like sticky tongue farms calcium, and repashy LoD. My main 3 are plain calcium, Dendrocare, and Repashy Vitaplus. I use calcium twice a week, Dendrocare once or twice a week ( twice a week if they are eating less often ), and Repashy Vitaplus every other week. I've never noticed any edema with this regime, no MBD, bloodwork has been good, and I never use supplements of more than 3 or 4 days a week. I rely on my gutloading practices to supply most of what they need.
I apply the same practice to my veiled, except I use Repashy vitaplus once a week with him and have since I received him as a tiny 3-4 month old.
I suggest dusting about 1/3 of the feeders offered per day. I coat the feeders so I can just see the dust, but don't make them look like ghost or battered for the fryer.
Water, water, water! Not 18 30sec sessions a day, but at least 1 15mins session per day and 3 30mins or longer sessions per week. I aim my mistings to coincide with when the chameleons are most likely to take advantage of them. A couple hours after the lights are on, they get a misting and I vary the times of the other sessions to give them heavy mistings at mid day and up until a couple hours before all lights go out. My lights are staggered to simulate morning, midday-evening, dusk, and night time.
I think people over emphasize the need for cool temperatures. 74F-78F with 83-85F basking spots ( they rarely use, but they should still have them ) should be appropriate for any morph.
I also keep mine in densely planted enclosures, that are brightly lit. Most people swear they hate bright light. They don't want to be baked off of their perch, but they definitely live in brightly lit areas, with foliage cover from direct sun.
CB are much more adaptable than WC, which seems like and obvious statement, but I found myself on a steep learning curve with the moods of WC animals and am still learning. These are smart animals and they really resent the change from the wild to captivity.

 

[Davecameos]

If you can find them, I heard they like banana roaches.

 

[AMdoubleER]

I have a CB Parsons coming in a few months. I'm trying to take note of everything I'll need and be ready for everything in the years to come. These animals are my life and want to do everything I can. My understanding is that adult Parsons can be quite picky and need some huge feeders. Right now my largest feeders are orangeheads, dubia, and Halloween hisser. Are there any places to buy larger exotic feeders for these guys? I'm worried I won't be able to find large snails, hoppers, butterflies, moths etc up here in PA to breed myself. Maybe some other roach species? It'll be awhile into the future before I'll have to worry about this(I think), but I want to be prepared with a plan.

Man, I just can't wait to see that beast attack! I know a Parsons attack has to be one of the most best sites to see in a life time! You have to share a video with me bro, you have too!

 

[Nursemaia]

James you're only a few hours away from me, I'm in Delaware. Katydids are some of my chams favorite treats. I leave my porch light on and let the bugs come to me. Cicadas should be a tasty treat in the summer too

 

[Extensionofgreen]

One other tip I have, is that my animals, usually the males will take breaks from eating what we think of as a normal amount. This is nerve wracking and leaves you wondering what the problem could be. If they stop eating and it isn't brumation, I suggest offering different feeders every 3 days. In other words, if they don't eat one day, wait 2 days and on the third day offer a feeder they have been enthusiastic with in the past. Don't let them manipulate you into supplying only one feeder. When you offer katydids and summer caught wild insects, offer them once or twice a week, only, so they don't come to expect them and only want them. Some animals will love hornworms, while others ignore them, and the same can be true of many feeders, and can change as they age. Younger ones enjoy bluebottle flies immensely and all sizes love moths, butterflies, cicadas, dragonflies, and things that fly in general. One of my males loved plucking superworms from branches. My yellow lip male just came out of a funk of only eating once or twice every 2 weeks. Now, the meal was a large orange head roach, so he wasn't starving, but it worried me and when he would eat I would sneak dubia nymphs in, before he finished swallowing. My only guess is that the seasons are reversed from Madagascar and this his first year on our seasons, so his internal clock is at odds with our hemispheric changes. I knew he wasn't ill, so I waited him out patiently and he's back to enjoying crickets and the usual fare on a normal schedule.

 

[Tkkaplan]

I have a CB Parsons coming in a few months. I'm trying to take note of everything I'll need and be ready for everything in the years to come. These animals are my life and want to do everything I can. My understanding is that adult Parsons can be quite picky and need some huge feeders. Right now my largest feeders are orangeheads, dubia, and Halloween hisser. Are there any places to buy larger exotic feeders for these guys? I'm worried I won't be able to find large snails, hoppers, butterflies, moths etc up here in PA to breed myself. Maybe some other roach species? It'll be awhile into the future before I'll have to worry about this(I think), but I want to be prepared with a plan.

I don't know much but you mentioned moths. You could wait until the hornworms morph into moths and feed him those.

 

[NickTide]

I've ordered vietnamese stick insects from Andee in the classifieds. They aren't as prolific as roaches but I've read that chams don't refuse them. Giant hissers are easier than most roaches and get some size. They take a while to get going but in a year there will be lots. Mine ate maple leaves all summer and did well.

 

[etclement]

If you want roaches go to Roach crossing. I'm getting some larger roaches for when Clay gets bigger from him soon, in fact.

 

[Andee]

If you want more roaches I would go with different genus than what you have now. It's how you will get the largest nutritional profile.

Orange heads are a Eublaberus species.
Dubias are a Blaptica species.
Discoids are Blaberus species.
Your current hisser, the Halloween Hisser is an Elliptorhina sp.
Larger hisser species usually fall under the Gromphadorina sp, though there are a couple other genus with hissers that are sold in captivity but usually only one is sold from the family.

 

[etclement]

Giant Lobster roach is from Henschoutedenia, they're a little less big though
Another roach I'm getting, Gyna Lurida isn't a big roach by any standard but the genus Gyna isn't used as feeders a lot

 

[Andee]

Gyna I don't think are often used because they are more expensive and generally sought by roach hobbiests, but as far as feeders the only reason I wouldn't use them is if they had a particularly offensive odor for their defense, or if they bred too slowly.

 

[etclement]

Gyna I don't think are often used because they are more expensive and generally sought by roach hobbiests, but as far as feeders the only reason I wouldn't use them is if they had a particularly offensive odor for their defense, or if they bred too slowly.

I would never dream of raising capucina or centurion, but lurida is known to be very erratic and females produce over 200 nymphs per litter. I thought of it as a GBR on steroids. Plus I do not believe lurida has a defensive odor but I could be wrong.

 

[Andee]

I am raising centurion soon, but definitely not for feeders XD

 

[jamest0o0]

Thank you everyone for the posts! Definitely going to get back to this and take some notes. Been on vacation so haven't had much time to look things over thoroughly.

 

[JoeDigiorgio]

I would never dream of raising capucina or centurion, but lurida is known to be very erratic and females produce over 200 nymphs per litter. I thought of it as a GBR on steroids. Plus I do not believe lurida has a defensive odor but I could be wrong.

Where are you getting them?

 

[etclement]

Where are you getting them?

Roach Crossing. Kyle has about a billion species of roaches and other things and he will even help you with any questions you have about them.

 

[Andee]

Kyle is great I agree, though his prices tend to hurt, you can usually find roaches you will never find anywhere else. I use him a lot for starter colonies of the more obscure species. But I usually do a ton of research before hand, because I can easily spend 80+ dollars on a more expensive roach there for just 25-30 nymphs XD.

But his roaches are beautiful and healthy specimens. I do not recommend feeding off the adults or nymphs you get from him the first time, since he is specifically an insect hobbiest and they don't worry much about high protein levels or avoiding certain gutload ingredients etc.

From what I know he has a backlog of orders he is working through due to a huge! move for him and his business. So you may have to wait a bit if you try to order.