lay bin doesn't fit in the enclosure

[jarvis1]

hi guys i own a young female veiled cham and i wanna be prepared for when she'll be gravid and ready to lay (non fertile) eggs. i heard that the lay bin must be inside the enclosure in order to get her used to it but i know some people just put the lay bin outside the enclosure but now i'm reading about people telling me that is wrong etcetc..
now i'm scared af because i cant afford a new enclosure and i cant put a whole bin inside the cage because of the numerous branches in it (even if i manage to put it inside the remaining space wouldn't be ok).

does anyone know any way to solve my problem? i'm really worried.. thanks!

 

[CJ's Exotics]

Well, what do you mean it does not fit? Doesn't fit as in too many branches, or is the laying bin too big?

 

[jarvis1]

Well, what do you mean it does not fit? Doesn't fit as in too many branches, or is the laying bin too big?

the lay bin is too big (i use a regular bin deep around 18 inches) what can i do now..?

 

[CJ's Exotics]

the lay bin is too big (i use a regular bin deep around 18 inches) what can i do now..?

You can use a smaller bin, pictures would be helpful.

 

[jarvis1]

i will post a pic tomorrow because now it' night here, by the way for now i can tell you that the cage is large 80cm , high 60cm and his depth is about 45 cm . i know it's not so big but i'm definitely going to buy a bigger enclosure when she gets bigger, for now she is perfectly fine in it and she has lots of branches. the only bin i could put in there is about 20x20cm and high 25/30cm but i think is too small..

 

[CJ's Exotics]

i will post a pic tomorrow because now it' night here, by the way for now i can tell you that the cage is large 80cm , high 60cm and his depth is about 45 cm . i know it's not so big but i'm definitely going to buy a bigger enclosure when she gets bigger, for now she is perfectly fine in it and she has lots of branches. the only bin i could put in there is about 20x20cm and high 25/30cm but i think is too small..

Okay, thanks!

 

[JacksJill]

Another option if the bottom of your cage is removable is to get a pot or bin larger than your cage bottom and sit the cage into it when you see her scratching at your smaller bin.

 

[kinyonga]

The reason why having a lay bin outside the cage is a problem is that the chameleon can't get to it on her own so she has to rely on you knowing when she needs it and often then signs are very subtle. So...I have always recommened having one inside the cage so she can start digging there and then if youn feel it's too small for her tomlaynthe eggs in you can move her to the big one outside the cage. However the one in the cage still needs to be big enough that she will dig in it....whichnismwhyni saynminimum size...12" deep x 12" x 8" and opaque and filled with washed playsand. That's what seems to work for any panther or veiled or smaller soecies. Hope this helps.

 

[jarvis1]

the only bin i can put inside the cage is around 6-8" deep and large about 12x12".... a deeper bin won't fit in the enclosure..
this is the base of my enclosure (the only thing i can do is to remove the tree bark along with the now semidead carnivorous plant and put the lay bin there under that horizontal branch)

i don't know if it could work.. i can do this way or use an external bin..

 

[kinyonga]

That size should be close enough to give her a place to start digging.

 

[jarvis1]

if that won't be enough and she won't lay eggs i think i'll try to put her in a bigger lay bin outside of the cage and wait, i read about different experiences by some guys here where they managed to let the cham lay her eggs in a trash bin outside the cage, so i'll give it a try.

What if i start to take her out to put her on a decent lay bin maybe 2 times a week to get her used to it? maybe i could even put some crickets in there so she can see the bin as a good place.. is that a bad idea for this purpose?

 

[kinyonga]

When they are gravid you don't want to keep moving them and disturbing them. If you do decide to put her in the big bin she needs to have proper heat and light and water, etc. Once she starts digging do not let her see you watching her she will abandon the hole and if it happens enough she can become eggbound and die.

 

[jarvis1]

When they are gravid you don't want to keep moving them and disturbing them. If you do decide to put her in the big bin she needs to have proper heat and light and water, etc. Once she starts digging do not let her see you watching her she will abandon the hole and if it happens enough she can become eggbound and die.

absolutely, i will move the spot light and the uvb right on the bigger lay bin along with a water dripper.
Anyway i wasn't talking about moving her a lot while she's gravid, i was thinking to put her from time to time (2 times a week for 1 hour) during these days when she's not gravid yet, so when in the future she'll be gravid she will find the bin comfortable and safe, what do you think? could it work?

 

[kinyonga]

I've never done that. I have the !ay bins in the cages and only move the female to the big bin if I have to (because she won't lay in the one in her cage). This doesn't mean that my way is the only way but it works so I've never changed it. They don't seem to care that they haven't been in the big lay bin before.

 

[jarvis1]

thanks for your help! got it!

btw, just to make sure, tomorrow i will post the lay bin that can fit in my cage so that you (or someone else) can tell me if it's decent for my little cham a picture is always better than just text!

 

[kinyonga]

Pictures are better a lot of the time!

 

[jarvis1]

This is the bin i was talking about, unfortunately this is the only bin that could fit inside my enclosure.. so i better use this or an external bin? any opinion?

 

[TCMontium]

There is no harm in trying both rather than only trying the "big-bin-outside" method. You can just fill this one and put it in around 3 weeks after her mating. If she does not lay into this one after the 4th week, then you can put her in the big bin. My friend had a giant veiled female that lay 50+ eggs in just a 15 cm (6 inches) deep bin in her cage.

 

[jarvis1]

There is no harm in trying both rather than only trying the "big-bin-outside" method. You can just fill this one and put it in around 3 weeks after her mating. If she does not lay into this one after the 4th week, then you can put her in the big bin. My friend had a giant veiled female that lay 50+ eggs in just a 15 cm (6 inches) deep bin in her cage.

that's a good thing, thanks. Anyway i'm not going to mate her with a male, i'm just talking about the laying of infertile eggs. how do i know when it's time to move her in the bigger external lay bin if she refuses the little one?

 

[TCMontium]

Then it will be hard to say. I guess as soon as you start to see the eggs popping between her ribs or when she starts rejecting to eat you should make the decision. If you leave her with the small laying bin, then there is the risk of her rejecting to lay the eggs and being egg-bound, since you do not know the exact time she starts to develop the eggs. I suppose it is the best decision to put her in the big bin once she stops eating or the eggs start to be visible between the ribs.
But still, you can put the small bin permanently after she is around 7 months old because sometimes they have small clutches which are not easy to spot until the last days (which means you might be too late when you spot the eggs and put her in the big bin).

But don't worry too much, they mostly are not too picky with their laying place and will lay before it is too late. We are just assuming the worst and trying to prevent every problem from happening, even though the odds of them happening are low.