LED for plants... Convince me!!!

[Decadancin]

So I have 4 individual T5 HO bulbs for UVB (single 6% Arcadia) and Plants (two 6500k and one Arcadia Plant Pro) along with two incandescent basking bulbs.

I tried to use the Jungle Dawn spot (actually the “pool light” cool and warm versions) but I found that Raistlin did not do well with them. He seemed to react to the added heat or airflow from the internal fans in the bulbs. Temps were not very high but they seemed to have a “drying” effect. Plants definitely dried out on the edges too. The light output was fantastic so I was not happy to stop using them.

I have been looking at some of the LED fixtures such as the Arcadia Jungle Dawn bar and some aquarium fixtures, but let’s cut to the chase...

What is the best for the typical 48 inch tall enclosure that does not require a second mortgage. An added bonus would be a sunrise/sunset program but not a deal breaker.

This should be fun!

 

[snitz427]

Well if you want a cheap replacement for the spots, try Sansi. You can always ship it back to amazon after a few days if it doesnt meet your needs. My chams really enjoy “basking” under them, but they dont really give off much, if any noticeable heat. Also no noticeable airflow. They also have a new 70w version that is flat. Its very bright... im using it for plant rack but havent put it ok cham cages yet.

 

[Decadancin]

I like the idea of something like this but am concerned how deep the lights will penetrate. Would be nice to have variable intensity throughout the day. $185.00 for this setup...

https://spectraldesigns.com/collections/all/products/36-x-8-led-light-strip-panel

https://spectraldesigns.com/collections/all/products/digital-controller-single-light-output

 

[snitz427]

This is def an @cyberlocc thread

 

[Decadancin]

@dshuld as well...

 

[snitz427]

@dshuld as well...

Yes! I was trying to remember his username!

 

[Bcloughen]

I just bought these for my plants, give off basically no heat and give the cage a cool looking hue. Did the early buy from Kammer and won't have my guy till Feb/Mar, hoping these are ok for enclosure, couldn't find a thread with led strip lights that was similar to what I was using.

 

[SeeJay]

Fluval makes lights for planted aquariums. Their app control is awesome. I’m using one of my old fluval aquarium lights in my vivarium.

 

[GoodKarma19]

I'm a big fan of my HLG 65 quantum boards! Wonderful high output, though mine do run a little hot and I needed to raise them off the enclosure by 8 inches. I can probably cool them down by a few degrees if I get off my duff and mount the drivers on my frame instead of on the boards themselves. On the plus side, I don't have to run a basking fixture!

I'm not sure what the light penetration would like like in a 48 inch, but it does well in my 36 and can light up practically the whole room on its own! I feel like it'd probably do the job. Might benefit from running 2, pending the width of your enclosure. I run 2 on my 36x18x36.

 

[cyberlocc]

I'm a big fan of my HLG 65 quantum boards! Wonderful high output, though mine do run a little hot and I needed to raise them off the enclosure by 8 inches. I can probably cool them down by a few degrees if I get off my duff and mount the drivers on my frame instead of on the boards themselves. On the plus side, I don't have to run a basking fixture!

I'm not sure what the light penetration would like like in a 48 inch, but it does well in my 36 and can light up practically the whole room on its own! I feel like it'd probably do the job. Might benefit from running 2, pending the width of your enclosure. I run 2 on my 36x18x36.

Ya I am with Karma, I would go Boards, Cobs or Boards and Cobs.

Really depends what you are trying to do, if your trying to match sunlight, throughout the day, the cobs (Or boards and Cobs) would be better.

The boards are pretty neat, however they do have some issues. The biggest one to me being they are hard to find over 4000k, some are okay with 4000k, it will likely grow plants fine, I just prefer 5600-6500k for a static, or for the high point of the day.

The other issue is as Karma said, they will not penetrate the canopy. They will flood the enclosure with light like a Flo would, so there par falls off fairly quickly past the top. If you plant correctly, to simulate a true canopy (so high plants plants on the top, and shade lovers on the bottom) this would be fine.

Alot of pot growers, who have been the ones buying these HLGs out whenever they come in, do not use them alone. They use the 4000k boards, with UV/IR boosters, and COBs with 60 degree lenses. You could do this COBless, by running the HLGs, and some JD spots, or something. This will also help to raise the K, which I would do.

The HLGs are in reality a COB, the COBs have hundreds of small small diodes in a circle to produce a ton of light, however the byproduct of doing that, is a ton of heat. The boards, space out the same hundreds of diodes, so the heat is a non factor, however so is the concentration of light, and the ability to run optics.

 

[Decadancin]

So this looked interesting, but still, overkill for the top plants and not enough for the bottom? Also, what color would the enclosure appear with it on?

 

[cyberlocc]

So this looked interesting, but still, overkill for the top plants and not enough for the bottom? Also, what color would the enclosure appear with it on?

View attachment 257353

View attachment 257354

View attachment 257355

View attachment 257356

Those PAR numbers are probably a lie, but that's a lot of PAR, even lower down.

And purple, the light will appear purple.


QBs are easy will appear white and are very good at growing plants.

I would go with these, https://horticulturelightinggroup.c...cts/qb288-quantum-board?variant=5992768897051

Not as efficient as the V2, but they come in 5000k at 29 dollars each.

So if you go with a 1050 driver, you can run 4 at 50 watts each. That would be 36,660 lumens, so fairly close to what I run on a similar cage size. At 50ws, they dont even need Aluminium plates, so just build a frame out of Aluminium Angle, 1/8 inch from Home Depot, or Lowes, like 10 dollars per 8ft.

If you want to, you can get Aluminium plates, 1/8 inch to mount them too for extra cooling and board rigidity. Not really needed, just make sure to frame out the entire size in the angle and utilize as many mount holes as possible for rigidity.

For driver, to stay at 50ws each, and be positive no plate needed. https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-hlg-240h-c1050b/ Will do nicely.

The boards have quick wire connects, so its simple to install.

I would run 4, they are 7x11 inches so you will have space to run JD spots, or Basking lights or whatever in between them.

Run them 7 wide, and the 11 be the depth, even spaced across your lenght. Or you could do 3 and flip them, to 11 wide, and still fit 2 lights between whether basking or whatever. This would take less depth so more room for Flos to be close to center.

They are the same price as a COB, COB still needs a sink, so they are defiantly cheaper. Also they are made for plant growth specifically, which my COBs are not.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'm not going to say that these are the best.
Just that they work and they are $39 at the Home Depot.
LED 24" linkable. So it's easy to make it into 48"
My sun loving Sheflerra are thriving with them.
They're also feather weight and produce no heat.

 

[Hashtag ChamLife]

I had a real issue with lighting and will definitely be doing some "DIY LED" system in the future. For my specific application, I needed something temporary and multipurpose. I have 3 of these:



I use 2 on my two males cages. I also have 2 of the 24W version - they have 1 less LED so not quite as intense. Then I have one of the 60W "helicopter" style bulbs.

Here's what I can tell you; they are pretty dang bright. I have a money tree that's way too big for my cage (my young male loves to be in the tree). Right on top sits a 36W. Below the canopy I have a sprig of wandering jew. It's getting enough light that I've have to retrain its growth pattern a few times, maybe once per week. I also have been able to get my air plants to bloom for the first time under these lights. I also have one over my gecko enclosure which has sheet moss, mood moss and parlor palms. Both mosses are gorgeous bright green and the mood moss is growing ferns. I use the "helicopter" style bulb for my plant nursery area. It has multiple orchids in bloom, 2 Australian willow cuttings (bonsai project), a corkscrew willow (bonsai), some lilies and a pothos growing under it. I've jumped on the Sansi bandwagon...

For your requirements, I'd suggest 2 of the spot style bulbs. That's between $50-80 depending on your selection of wattage. The bulbs don't noticeably raise the temps and they aren't extremely hot to the touch.

That said, $80 is a good chunk of the way towards the boards previously mentioned. The boards will take a little tinkering and some cosmetic work - which is part of why I haven't jumped on that ship. Otherwise, I'd suggest an "aquarium" light as those will do the trick as well, but will run you about $150 or so depending on the size you need.

Overall, I went the bulb route because I had the domes to use, I'm constantly rearranging, haven't decided on my final room layout from the move, I can always use them over my plants and because I have 8 enclosures to light. Your needs are probably different, but if you're tired of dead plants, a single $30-40 bulb goes a LONG way.

 

[Hashtag ChamLife]

So this looked interesting, but still, overkill for the top plants and not enough for the bottom? Also, what color would the enclosure appear with it on?

View attachment 257353

View attachment 257354

View attachment 257355

View attachment 257356

Oh and for these... as stated they give you a "purple light". I've done a bit of research and spoken to a few folk in the know and basically what I got was "overpriced junk". The claims they make are wildly inaccurate and they're just the same concept as what cyberlocc mentioned with the boards at an insanely high mark up. You can buy about 4 of the HLG QB 132 on amazon for $130 and spend $70 on a driver and end up with a much better product and enough light to signal the space station! [That's the route I was/am leaning towards].

 

[Decadancin]

Those PAR numbers are probably a lie, but that's a lot of PAR, even lower down.

And purple, the light will appear purple.


QBs are easy will appear white and are very good at growing plants.

I would go with these, https://horticulturelightinggroup.c...cts/qb288-quantum-board?variant=5992768897051

Not as efficient as the V2, but they come in 5000k at 29 dollars each.
View attachment 257362

So if you go with a 1050 driver, you can run 4 at 50 watts each. That would be 36,660 lumens, so fairly close to what I run on a similar cage size. At 50ws, they dont even need Aluminium plates, so just build a frame out of Aluminium Angle, 1/8 inch from Home Depot, or Lowes, like 10 dollars per 8ft.

If you want to, you can get Aluminium plates, 1/8 inch to mount them too for extra cooling and board rigidity. Not really needed, just make sure to frame out the entire size in the angle and utilize as many mount holes as possible for rigidity.

For driver, to stay at 50ws each, and be positive no plate needed. https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-hlg-240h-c1050b/ Will do nicely.

The boards have quick wire connects, so its simple to install.

I would run 4, they are 7x11 inches so you will have space to run JD spots, or Basking lights or whatever in between them.

Run them 7 wide, and the 11 be the depth, even spaced across your lenght. Or you could do 3 and flip them, to 11 wide, and still fit 2 lights between whether basking or whatever. This would take less depth so more room for Flos to be close to center.

They are the same price as a COB, COB still needs a sink, so they are defiantly cheaper. Also they are made for plant growth specifically, which my COBs are not.

So, this idea of having 3 with space for two basking bulbs in between is awesome! I run two basking sites now and think this could be perfect. Along with the 4 T5 HO that I use for UVB and the 6500k’s this could be an amazing enclosure. Do you think that would be OK for the occupant?

I would likely not have the LED’s on for the entire day, but only the peak light times to mimic the daylight patterns. Maybe like 8 out of the 12 hours on average...

 

[cyberlocc]

So, this idea of having 3 with space for two basking bulbs in between is awesome! I run two basking sites now and think this could be perfect. Along with the 4 T5 HO that I use for UVB and the 6500k’s this could be an amazing enclosure. Do you think that would be OK for the occupant?

I would likely not have the LED’s on for the entire day, but only the peak light times to mimic the daylight patterns. Maybe like 8 out of the 12 hours on average...

Ya I think that would be great.

I'm getting ready to do the same myself, I want the IRA for basking, and recently found that the DHP don't provide much. Plants also like a good amount of IRA, it's said to "wake them up".

The real "Deep Tissue Heating" that we are after is IRA. Which is strongest of lamps In a Halogen/Incandescent, zero in Ceramics and very little in a DHP but more than a ceramic (8% in DHP, 0 in ceramic, 44% in Halogen).

So I personally am making that same move, of
CoB / Basking / CoB / Basking / CoB / Basking / CoB

The LEDs are so bright, that when on they will drown out the halogens. And make a better Fuller spectrum of white light.

The T5s (I am just doing too, a UVB x2) fill in the gaps that are missing in UV and make the spectrum Fuller yet again. To give us pretty close to a perfect spectrum with minimal work.

The halogens as you said, in a low K variety, like 2800/2900 would also provide a nice warm morning and night.

I am going to until I can get into the dimming aspect with various meters, use x2 UVB 6%s flanking the Led/basking array on both sides. And run them for less time. This will give a good UVB gradient, especially with bills statement today that too much UV Light won't hurt from a D3 overdose. You would be close to the 3.0 in the center where you could stop supplements and give the animal a gradient, front and back where the lights don't overlap will have less UVI than outsides.

Mine will ramp, but without ramping we could do something like.

7am: Halogens on.
8am: LEDS on
9am: UVB on
1pm: (if you do afternoon mist) everything off but UVB
2pm: everything back on.
5pm: UVB off
6pm: LEDS off
7pm: Halogens off.

This would be a natural as we can get without dimming. UVA/B is short-range, so the UVI like the K value, does not start to raise until the sun gets closer to overhead. The Halogens also provide some UVA, which is helpful. They will also balance the spectrum past 5k, to 6500-7000 (grossly estimated) which would be pretty good for noon sun.

Since you want to do the 3, and 2 basking and the size of the boards, I would likely do them 11 inches wide, so make a 6 inch taking for them to attach into and you can build in the E27 fixtures in there as well, and I am going to add "Wings" as it were to hold a single reflector Flo on each side. (Doubles would work too, I'd do Atinic bulbs if you are to run 2 doubles, 2 UVB and 2 Atinic, these are 10k fish lights they out out alot of the visible side of UVA the side that Chams see, in fill in visible to Chams gap that is lacking in our UVB lights. They will too aid in spectrum adjusting.

If you just want to run 2 bulbs, maybe do a 12% in the front for UVB and a Atinic in the back.

 

[Decadancin]

So actually looking at this option, I would likely only use 2 of these boards. I have 37 inches across the top of the enclosure, but in the center I have a support beam that also has an opening for my fogger. At 11 inches across, plus the 3 for the support beam I have 12 inches of space left. I think one board about 3 inches in from the outer wall on each side may work. Along with the two T5 HO 6500k's that will be also used it should do the trick.

So two at $29.00...

Could do two of these at $29.00 each...

Or the frame from Lowes for about $30.00...

Power supply for $79.00... (Likely don't need for only two boards, but not looking for specifics right now...

Power cord...

Looking at $228.00 with heatsinks, $170 without...

Hmmm...

 

[Decadancin]

Here is my very high tech schematic (not to scale )...

 

[Decadancin]

Almost impossible to find anything above 4000k...