Leg dangling/ head resting, eating dirt, and edema

[Jessandsprinkes]

• Your Chameleon - Species/sex: Male Panther. About a year old.
• Handling - I handle him a few times a week, mostly because he paws to get out to poop haha. I sometimes will encourage him to come on my hand with feeding.

• Feeding - I feed him once a day, 8sh dubia roaches or crickets, some silkworms, sometimes Black soldier fly larvae, around 8-10 am. I dust with calcium without D3 every feeding and with D3 once/twice a month. I gutload with veggies (carrots, dandelion greens, collared greens, and apples.)

• Supplements - I switched to Repashy without D3 every day and repashy low D3 once or twice a month
• Watering - I have a mistking set up, he gets a 10 min misting morning time right when lights come on and 10 minutes evening, right before lights out. I never see him drink.

• Fecal Description - Usually looks good- urine has been pale/white but occasionally orange and that is why I bought a mist system. He has been tested for parasites and it came back clear.

• History - His enclosure is next to a window, it does not get direct sun/ there are lots of trees. He likes to look out.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen XL reptibreeze cage
• Lighting - reptisun 5.0 T5 HO UVB light and 75 watt heat lamp. lights go on at 6:30 and off at 5:30 pm.
• Temperature - I have a digital thermometer, the basking spot is close to 85 degrees, mid cage 70-73 and lower 70 degrees F. I have Been running a heater, he is in my living room and it gets cold.
• Humidity - 40-60% depending. The humidity levels in LA have been pretty decent. I mist if I feel like they are low and I haven't felt the need to get a fogger. Measure with pangea temp and humidity gauge.
• Plants - I use a variety, pothos, dracena, money tree, spider plant, ferns, etc.
• Placement - Next to a window that does not get direct sun. lots of tree cover. I shut the blinds when it is cold outside.
• Location - Los Angeles

Current Problem - I have been struggling with gular edema the past few months. I stopped his vitamin/D3 (repashy low D3) for a month. I switched his calcium from Pangea to Repashy with no d3, suggested in this group. His edema has not really improved. He has been chewing on branches/ eating dirt (I covered his soil with river rocks and he continues to try). I noticed that the past few weeks he is resting his head much more and dangling his legs. He has had many odd behaviors recently and I am not sure if I am doing something wrong. It is raining in LA and I am not sure if that is impacting him.

Is he just being a weirdo? Pictured is him today and him eating dirt.. He ate a lot and I tried to stop him but I am not constantly watching and I am worried about impaction. It's a lot of issues all at once.

Thanks.

 

[janjan20]

Hi there! I would say at this point a vet visit is needed. Since you have already tried the supplement route something else is probably going on. The leg dangling could be a sign of pain and the dirt eating I don’t think is normal for panthers since they are not big plant eaters like veileds. Do you have a reptile vet established?

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

Hi there! I would say at this point a vet visit is needed. Since you have already tried the supplement route something else is probably going on. The leg dangling could be a sign of pain and the dirt eating I don’t think is normal for panthers since they are not big plant eaters like veileds. Do you have a reptile vet established?

Darn. Thanks for your input. The edema is maybe somewhat better but not gone. I noticed some earth worms got into one plant and I repotted it/ took it out. Maybe he learned that bugs are in the soil from that and goes looking for them.

I do have a vet that specializes in reptile care, although I am not sure if I fully trust them. I also know going in the car will totally stress him out. But I want to do what is best for his health.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

Hi there! I would say at this point a vet visit is needed. Since you have already tried the supplement route something else is probably going on. The leg dangling could be a sign of pain and the dirt eating I don’t think is normal for panthers since they are not big plant eaters like veileds. Do you have a reptile vet established?

He doesn't dangle 24/7, but I notice it more while he is basking.

 

[janjan20]

Ok the worm in the pot could be why he’s getting at the dirt lol, I’ve had one of mine do that as well. I don’t have experience with panthers but I know that they can get the “winter blahs”. Hopefully some others will chime in that have panthers, it’s always good to get a second opinion.

 

[kinyonga]

Dangling legs often occurs when the chameleon has gout…but your chameleon doesn’t seem to have the swollen ankles that should be present if it’s dangling it’s legs for that reason. It’s a uric acid issue if it’s gout. Feeding too many dubias can lead to increased uric acid levels. A vet can test for the uric acid levels to rule that out.

What do you feed the dubias?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I'm not seeing much in your husbandry that would explain anything that you describe. The Repashy LoD should be twice a month or once every two weeks. To increase hydration, if your night temps are consistently below around 68, you could use a fogger (or set the mist king to mist a few brief times during the night) and boost humidity as high as it will go. I've had/have a couple of panthers that get the winter blahs, but it's mostly just their color fading for a little while. A visit with a good vet is your best action. Here's a list of vets in/around your area. Personally, even though he's about an hour away from you, I'd go to Dr Greek.
https://www.gavh.net

LA area vets

Attila Molnar, DVM *
All Animals Medical Center, Calabasas, California - (818) 591-2773

Geoffrey Stein, DVM *
Shipp's Animal Hospital, 351 Foothill Blvd., Beverly Hills - (310) 550-0101

Daniel Reimer, DVM *
Adler Veterinary Clinic, North Hills, California - (818) 893-6366

Thomas H. Boyer, DVM
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos, 888-F Carmel Mountain Road, San Diego, CA - (858) 484-3490
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos

Todd R. Cecil, DVM
Pet Emergency and Specialty Center, Chula Vista, CA (619) 591-4802 and La Mesa, CA (619) 462-4800

Tom Greek, DVM
Greek & Associates Veterinary Hospital, 23687 Via Del Rio, Yorba Linda - (714) 463-1190 or (866) 940-7028
www.tomgreek.com

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

Dangling legs often occurs when the chameleon has gout…but your chameleon doesn’t seem to have the swollen ankles that should be present if it’s dangling it’s legs for that reason. It’s a uric acid issue if it’s gout. Feeding too many dubias can lead to increased uric acid levels. A vet can test for the uric acid levels to rule that out.

What do you feed the dubias?

I switched from mainly crickets to dubias recently.. I feed them collared and dandelion greens, carrots, sweet potatoes, apples. Should I cut back on dubias?

 

[kinyonga]

If the switch to Dubias was just recent, it shouldn’t be part of the problem.

 

[Beman]

May I see a few more pics of his entire body. I can not see his gulular area and would like to see how the edema is presenting. Also from what I am seeing there is no swelling in the limbs at all to indicate gout.

When did he actively start going after the dirt? I am wondering if this is linked to lack of supplementation and he is trying to make up for it.

Can you post a pic of the labels of the repashy supplements you got?

Additionally if he has hit the 1 year mark he should only be fed every other day 3-5 feeders. Otherwise he will just start storing fat in the casque, cheeks, and around the organs.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

May I see a few more pics of his entire body. I can not see his gulular area and would like to see how the edema is presenting. Also from what I am seeing there is no swelling in the limbs at all to indicate gout.

When did he actively start going after the dirt? I am wondering if this is linked to lack of supplementation and he is trying to make up for it.

Can you post a pic of the labels of the repashy supplements you got?

Additionally if he has hit the 1 year mark he should only be fed every other day 3-5 feeders. Otherwise he will just start storing fat in the casque, cheeks, and around the organs.

Hi Beman! I will go take some pictures of him. The edema varies week by week, it actually isn't super visible today but I can feel it if I touch him. He started with the dirt eating about 2 months ago.

He has a large appetite still, I will cut back on feeding now.

He was pissed off here haha but you can see the little bump from his edema and where it is located.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

May I see a few more pics of his entire body. I can not see his gulular area and would like to see how the edema is presenting. Also from what I am seeing there is no swelling in the limbs at all to indicate gout.

When did he actively start going after the dirt? I am wondering if this is linked to lack of supplementation and he is trying to make up for it.

Can you post a pic of the labels of the repashy supplements you got?

Additionally if he has hit the 1 year mark he should only be fed every other day 3-5 feeders. Otherwise he will just start storing fat in the casque, cheeks, and around the organs.

Here he is today. the edema is not super noticeable. It's strange.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

Hi. I'm not seeing much in your husbandry that would explain anything that you describe. The Repashy LoD should be twice a month or once every two weeks. To increase hydration, if your night temps are consistently below around 68, you could use a fogger (or set the mist king to mist a few brief times during the night) and boost humidity as high as it will go. I've had/have a couple of panthers that get the winter blahs, but it's mostly just their color fading for a little while. A visit with a good vet is your best action. Here's a list of vets in/around your area. Personally, even though he's about an hour away from you, I'd go to Dr Greek.
https://www.gavh.net

I really appreciate the tips and vet recs. If I can't get this sorted out this week I will be going to see Dr Greek. Any tips on transport? My last visit was a disaster because he hated the car.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

If the switch to Dubias was just recent, it shouldn’t be part of the problem.

I switched about a month and a half ago to Dubias as a main feeder.

 

[Beman]

Here he is today. the edema is not super noticeable. It's strange.

Thanks for your help!

Ok so what I am seeing... No edema and strong muscular legs without signs of gout. I would go ahead and reduce him now to every other day feeding of 3-5 feeders. His casque is at a good size and you do not want to have to battle obesity issues with getting them to lose weight. I see a very strong and muscular male Panther. Eye turrets are full and eyes are clear. Colors are pronounced and vibrant.

Talk to me about his grip, is it still pretty strong? Have you checked the foot pads to make sure there is no discoloration or wounds? How active is he in the cage? Barely moving around or pretty actively patrolling his cage?

Supplements are on point. I would go back to using the calcium without D3 at the very least. This may stop him from trying to constantly go after the dirt. But also we use this to balance out the phosphorus to calcium level of the insects.

Note you might add more branches that have a smaller diameter throughout the cage from basking down. Most of yours are larger which means he can not fully grip around them.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

Ok so what I am seeing... No edema and strong muscular legs without signs of gout. I would go ahead and reduce him now to every other day feeding of 3-5 feeders. His casque is at a good size and you do not want to have to battle obesity issues with getting them to lose weight. I see a very strong and muscular male Panther. Eye turrets are full and eyes are clear. Colors are pronounced and vibrant.

Talk to me about his grip, is it still pretty strong? Have you checked the foot pads to make sure there is no discoloration or wounds? How active is he in the cage? Barely moving around or pretty actively patrolling his cage?

Supplements are on point. I would go back to using the calcium without D3 at the very least. This may stop him from trying to constantly go after the dirt. But also we use this to balance out the phosphorus to calcium level of the insects.

Note you might add more branches that have a smaller diameter throughout the cage from basking down. Most of yours are larger which means he can not fully grip around them.

I could just be paranoid. I watch him super closely lol. His grip is strong but less than when he was a baby. There is no discoloration or wounds. The edema will be here one week and less visible the next. So maybe the reduction of supplements helped.

He is not patrolling his cage or active really, he spends 99% of the day basking. I assumed it was just because of the season change.

I will add some smaller branches.

 

[Beman]

I could just be paranoid. I watch him super closely lol. His grip is strong but less than when he was a baby. There is no discoloration or wounds. The edema will be here one week and less visible the next. So maybe the reduction of supplements helped.

He is not patrolling his cage or active really, he spends 99% of the day basking. I assumed it was just because of the season change.

I will add some smaller branches.

LOL I think it is better to be paranoid.. And all I am seeing are images I do not have day to day experience with him. But from what I am seeing I see a very healthy boy. A lot of panthers will go through a winter blues where their colors get quite dull. Yours is not. basking like that when they are eating daily is pretty common. Once we start moving into spring he should become more active because he will want a girlfriend.

Do you have any old pics of when the edema was bad that I could take a look at?

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

LOL I think it is better to be paranoid.. And all I am seeing are images I do not have day to day experience with him. But from what I am seeing I see a very healthy boy. A lot of panthers will go through a winter blues where their colors get quite dull. Yours is not. basking like that when they are eating daily is pretty common. Once we start moving into spring he should become more active because he will want a girlfriend.

Do you have any old pics of when the edema was bad that I could take a look at?

Thank you for the reassurance.

I wish I took more pictures I only have these from the beginning of January. So I suppose cutting back supplements helped a ton.

 

[Andrew1283]

My Herbie sits on his branch like that too, with tail anchored and one leg dangling. I crack up every time I see it. It’s just so incredibly lazy looking.

 

[Jessandsprinkes]

My Herbie sits on his branch like that too, with tail anchored and one leg dangling. I crack up every time I see it. It’s just so incredibly lazy looking.

aww lol. Glad to hear other chams are weirdos too. I got so scared because Sprinky never does that and I watch him like a hawk for changes hahha