Lethargic Male Jackson

[FloydPakasloslo]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Jackson's, sub/young adult male, I have cared for him for about 2-3 months now
• Handling - Only as needed, maybe 1-2 times a week
• Feeding - Crickets, currently fed cat food. Changing that to greens and veggie scraps. Occasionally fed wild insects (small ground roaches, grasshoppers) from organic garden
• Supplements - None, need advice
• Watering - Dripper system as needed (if I am not home for a day or two) but once to twice daily soaks of the whole cage with a hose
• Fecal Description - Seems normal, have not noticed changes except in frequency. Used to be once every day or two, have not noticed in past 2-3 days. Have not tested for parasites.
• History - He was wild caught in Waialua, HI (a somewhat hot, dry area of North Shore Oahu) and given to me after the person decided they did not have the time to care for him properly any longer.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen and wood, 2.5W 2.5L 4H, wooden top and bottom
• Lighting - None- outdoor cage, natural light only.
• Temperature - Outdoor cage, normal climate ranges from low 50's at night in winter, to low 80's in summer.
• Humidity - Unknown, humid tropical climate. Regular waterings
• Plants - Syngonium podophyllum, multiple tillandsia species, unknown orchid

• Placement - Outdoor, low traffic area, sheltered by natural plants and trees from wind. About 8-10" off the ground
• Location - Pupukea, Oahu, HI

Current Problem - Chameleon has been very healthy and active until about 4 days ago when he suddenly became very lethargic. Eyes are open, but not as often or wide as usual. Still drinks water occasionally, but I have not seen him eat in several days. Mostly he just lays on a branch with his head on the branch. I suspect it may be MBD. I have thought there wasn't enough sun getting into the cage but I wanted advice from people with more experience. Unfortunately, taking him to a vet is just not really an option.

I would really like advice on if it is MBD, and if so, what exact route is best. Currently I plan on getting liquid calcium, and getting him out in the sun twice a day, but I would like to know about how long. I will also be manipulating his cage to have a partial screen roof so there is more filtered light in his cage during the day. Currently he is only getting a few hours partial sun and I'm not sure it is enough. If needed, I can get photos tomorrow.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I doubt he has MBD since it sounds as if he mostly grew up in the wild. When he is growing rapidly, he has the greatest need for calcium and it sounds as though he was in the wild at that time getting everything he needed. (UVB is needed for calcium metabolism. It is converted into Vitamin D.) His cage is outdoors so he is getting some UVB light which will be better than any light bulb. Even in very shaded areas, there are usually small dapples of light falling in the cage. I have one quad that would never bask in the sun but would expose about one square inch or less to sunlight, hiding the rest of her body under cover.

Feeding cat food to feeder insects is not good that's for sure, but his health problems are dramatic and acute so I doubt that is the issue.

A picture of him would really help. If he is in a dry windy area, he could be severely dehydrated even though it sounds like he could be getting adequate water. You mention that his cage is sheltered from the wind which suggests the area is windy. My quads and graciliors can dehydrate in an hour if it is slightly windy on a clear, cool day regardless of how many misters or soakings I put on their cages.

There are so many things that can go wrong with wild caughts it is impossible to know where to start. They often don't die right away. Captivity causes tremendous stress to them and stress suppresses the immune system allowing pathogens and parasites that would normally be kept in check to overwhelm them.

My first response to an animal that is declining is to increase their hydration. He might not know how to get water from a dripper or might not be getting enough. Chameleons are not the smartest animals and a wild caught is particularly reclusive. Buy one of those outdoor misters that hook up to a garden hose. Arctic Cove makes on that costs about $12 that you can buy in a big-box hardware store like Home Depot. Wrap that around the cage and just run it for the whole day for several days. If parasites are his problem, he is likely too weak for you to try to even think of worming. You will likely kill him trying to deal with parasites even if parasites are his problem. It's a Catch-22 dilemma and you have to walk a very fine line with wild caughts. I have wormed declining wild caughts as a last ditch effort and I have also force fed them. When I worm wild caughts, especially declining ones, I don't do a normal worming. I just try to knock a few of the parasites down, not eliminate them. I give a half a dose of Panacur for one or two days in a row. I also give them extra water and stuff a few silkworms in their mouths. I will not even think of worming an animal that might be even the slightest bit dehydrated. If the parasites are overwhelming the animal, I just want to get them more in balance to give the chameleon's immune system the chance to take care of the problem.

Wild caughts are a challenge and I don't think they ever stop being a challenge for as long as they live.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I just reread your post--do you have a solid wood roof?

Can you send a picture of your set up and your chameleon? Does any light get into the cage?

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

Thank you so much for your thorough response. The top is solid wood, yes, which is why I am concerned about not enough light. He gets a small amount that trickles in on the sides, where I usually find him basking, but I dont think it is enough. I would say all the light is filtered, no direct sunshine.

I have seen him drink from a dripper, and I turn it off at nights and would sometimes find him sitting near where it goes in the morning waiting for me to turn it back on.

About how long does captivity stress take to affect a chameleon? Before I had him he was captive for probably about 6 months, but I would have to ask to know for sure. I was wondering if it could be the climate change that stressed him. He was caught in a dry, sea-level area, and I live at a low elevation where it is much cooler and wetter.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

Here is a photo of the cage and of hi Jackson.

 

[Andee]

Can you take a picture and post it? Whole body pictured would be nice. Just to see if he's dehydrated or got anything else with physical symptoms going on.

Edit: he looks a bit dehydrated, I would set his mister on longer periods of time for a while.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

Thank you so much. I'm going to work on his cage tomorrow, cut a new screen sun roof into the top, adjust his dripper, aND water him more often until I can get a mister setup.

I may need to try hand feeding, he's completely off food a few days

Any recomendations for Reptaid or Repti-Boost? I know it's not medicinal, but I've heard that it helps give him a little oomph to recover on his own. Is one better than the other, or should I use both?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you so much. I'm going to work on his cage tomorrow, cut a new screen sun roof into the top, adjust his dripper, aND water him more often until I can get a mister setup.

I may need to try hand feeding, he's completely off food a few days

Any recomendations for Reptaid or Repti-Boost? I know it's not medicinal, but I've heard that it helps give him a little oomph to recover on his own. Is one better than the other, or should I use both?

If he is off his feed, he will eat LESS when being hand fed. Do you mean force feeding? That is different from hand feeding.

In his picture, he looks a bit dehydrated, but your picture isn't very good so I could be completely wrong. Where does the morning sun hit? He needs to be able to bask in the morning sun. More cover in his cage would help.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

If he is off his feed, he will eat LESS when being hand fed. Do you mean force feeding? That is different from hand feeding.

In his picture, he looks a bit dehydrated, but your picture isn't very good so I could be completely wrong. Where does the morning sun hit? He needs to be able to bask in the morning sun. More cover in his cage would help.

I guess I mean which ever I need to try to get him eating. How long should I wait until I try force feeding?

Morning sun doesn't hit his cage until about 9am, on the right side of the screen. I used to find him around there every morning. Tomorrow I am going to make a screened part in the roof to allow more in.

I will pick him up some more plants. I've been meaning to, but I live in a rural area where getting to a nursery is a bit difficult. I will be going to pick some up Tuesday.

I'll upload photos in a separate post.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

Here are better photos of both sides of the face, and a whole body picture. I had him out in the sun for a little bit today and he seemed to perk up a little bit, but no food or water. I am going to hold back on offering him anything to eat for another couple days and see if he gets hungry enough to try eating. I'm mostly worried about water intake right now. Fortunately I am home all day tomorrow and can try more regularly misting his cage and getting him in the sun.

 

[MeruJack]

Thank you for providing more pictures. I notice that he is sleeping in two of the three pictures. Was that because it was nighttime there when you took the pictures?

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

No, it was just before sunset. He's been having his eyes closed more often than not, but he still does open them and look around if I am near his cage or handling him. All these were taken at the same time.

 

[Dannysc]

To me I would have a fecal run first thing. As far as supplimenting I would work on a good suppliment schedule. I don't know if you have it there but I like Repashy calcium plus LoD and I would use it once a week for a while since you have not been supplimenting then work to once every 2 weeks once healthy. Sound to me like there is a good chance of this being a parasite issue. The number 1 killer of wc jackson's is parasites.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

To me I would have a fecal run first thing. As far as supplimenting I would work on a good suppliment schedule. I don't know if you have it there but I like Repashy calcium plus LoD and I would use it once a week for a while since you have not been supplimenting then work to once every 2 weeks once healthy. Sound to me like there is a good chance of this being a parasite issue. The number 1 killer of wc jackson's is parasites.

Thank you so much. The vet is a last ditch option, I just don't have the money for it and it's over an hour and a half away and my car doesn't run well. If I can't get any sign on improvement or he takes a turn I will go to the vet.

I'll see if they have that calcium anywhere locally. Unfortunately we are pretty limited on supplies, but I will probably order an overnight from Amazon for a few different things.

 

[FloydPakasloslo]

Update:

There were no improvements this morning, so I had him in some partial sun woth a dripper set on him for about 45 minutes.

Fortune has it, a neighbor was having a plant sale and I got two new plants to provide more coverage and increased humidity.

He seemed a little better after soaking him thoroughly throughout the day. I was able to find Fluker's Repta-Boost, and also picked up the Repashy brand, but Calcium Plus was the only available product. I got some meal worms to try and entice him with something different.