Hakai
Member
Ok, I'll make sure to use organic soil and figure out a lighting situation. ;P
Let's Keep It Real
- Thread starter ocular_factitus
- Start date
Ok, I'll make sure to use organic soil and figure out a lighting situation. ;P
Psychobunny
Avid Member
Sorry, call me lazy if you want, but there is not a single live plant anywhere
in my house! I am a killer of plants, and manage to kill the hardiest of them
in a matter of days.
All my cham cages on a mistking and that goes off every hour, I can a
dripper going all day, 2 floor size humidifiers, and I also hand mist.
Besides, every time I get a plant, any plant, I also get a house full of fungus
gnats!!!
in my house! I am a killer of plants, and manage to kill the hardiest of them
in a matter of days.
All my cham cages on a mistking and that goes off every hour, I can a
dripper going all day, 2 floor size humidifiers, and I also hand mist.
Besides, every time I get a plant, any plant, I also get a house full of fungus
gnats!!!
ocular_factitus
New Member
I think you're over watering them honestly, it kept happening to me, and i really watched myself. I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself, how can you raise wonderful chameleons and be a killer of plants? It's just over watering. keep your chin up!
ocular_factitus
New Member
Terrible logic. Your chameleons aren't made of plant matter either, so why use live plants?
Seriously tho, I like live plants and real vines/branches much better than artificial. For multiple reasons.
Oops i meant plastic plants...Lol!!!
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
I've never even purchased fake vines, I've been using live plants and real branches in my cages from the moment I started with chameleons. The most I've ever done was buy a fake orchid or two to add some color to my early cages, until I learned how to keep bromeliads alive!
Edit - Anyone who thinks they have a black thumb should really look into adding/hanging pothos in their cages, at least. They are so difficult to kill, you really can't over-water them (they can grow underwater) and in a typical cage they do great. My indoor cages have been 90-100% pothos for a couple years now and I haven't lost more than one. Plus they're cheap, you can get a big, beautiful, long one to hang from any nursery for $10.
Edit - Anyone who thinks they have a black thumb should really look into adding/hanging pothos in their cages, at least. They are so difficult to kill, you really can't over-water them (they can grow underwater) and in a typical cage they do great. My indoor cages have been 90-100% pothos for a couple years now and I haven't lost more than one. Plus they're cheap, you can get a big, beautiful, long one to hang from any nursery for $10.
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Psychobunny
Avid Member
I think you're over watering them honestly, it kept happening to me, and i really watched myself. I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself, how can you raise wonderful chameleons and be a killer of plants? It's just over watering. keep your chin up!
Plants HATE me!! if they could, they would get up and run away, instead,
they die!!!
shmeenakoz
Member
You are the perfect person to ask so here it goes. I love keeping pothos also but today my boyfriend started yelling for me to quickly come upstairs, "Kai is eating something and its not a bug!!" So I ran upstairs and found the stringy pothos pieces hanging out of his mouth
Now is this extremely detrimental to his health if it was swallowed? I of course didn't care how much I freaked him out and reached in to pull out the plant thread. Luckily he didn't seem phased and was able to retrieve the whole thing.
pigglett79
Avid Member
You are the perfect person to ask so here it goes. I love keeping pothos also but today my boyfriend started yelling for me to quickly come upstairs, "Kai is eating something and its not a bug!!" So I ran upstairs and found the stringy pothos pieces hanging out of his mouth
Pothos is a safe plant, it is ok for them to eat it.
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
You are the perfect person to ask so here it goes. I love keeping pothos also but today my boyfriend started yelling for me to quickly come upstairs, "Kai is eating something and its not a bug!!" So I ran upstairs and found the stringy pothos pieces hanging out of his mouth
No, it's ok, veileds have eaten entire pothos plants with no ill effects. None of the species I keep are very interested in greens so it's nothing I deal with usually but yes, it's fine if he nibbles on it. He may never try it again after that experience! lol
Pothos does have a bit of toxicity in mammals, but it doesn't really seem to affect chameleons.
SaintJimmy
Avid Member
I love the naturalistic look.
My enclosure currently has ALL real branches in it (aside from one fake vine I wrap around some of them so he can get around better) and two fake bunches of leaves.
Other than that I have a jade on the dry side and my ficus on the wet side.
My father and I were planning on building a cage back/wall that holds up to three plants like baby tears or pothos.
I am not okay with when people have 0 live plants, but if they have some fake and some live, it's okay. Some people can't afford to build cool naturalistic terrariums but can still give it a good home.
My enclosure currently has ALL real branches in it (aside from one fake vine I wrap around some of them so he can get around better) and two fake bunches of leaves.
Other than that I have a jade on the dry side and my ficus on the wet side.
My father and I were planning on building a cage back/wall that holds up to three plants like baby tears or pothos.
I am not okay with when people have 0 live plants, but if they have some fake and some live, it's okay. Some people can't afford to build cool naturalistic terrariums but can still give it a good home.
Balizar
New Member
I have always used a mix of both and I can honestly say it has not hurt their health or longevity! I use giant pothos and fake vines around the top especially under my raindome. My pothos grows so fast that all of the leaves at the top get burned. My pothos is about 3 1/2 feet tall and I cut it back constantly. But I have never seen fake plants harm a cham, I guess they could eat it but I have never had that problem.
shaunaroxanne
Avid Member
I would love to have real plants, and I did when I only had a few chameleons. It really becomes difficult, though, when you have a lot of enclosures. They get little gnats, they get smelly if they get too wet, and as they grow, their leaves make the water bounce out of the enclosures onto the floor. Females try to dig in them, crickets hide in the dirt, and your drainage system gets all muddy. I do miss them at times, but not enough to go through all that
So we have, in this thread, decided that fake plants make a mediocre environment, implied that people use fake plants out of laziness, and have generally disparaged fake plant use. We even recycled the sound bite about plastic chameleons. What we have not yet done is explain why plastic plants cannot be used to create a suitable habitat for the chameleon.
Yes, I have heard about humidity creation, water droplet retention, chewing of leaves, and even a plastic poison theory. So have any of you tried plastic plants and failed to keep a healthy chameleon?
I predominantly use real plants and enjoy creating different themes in my cages. I have also found occasions where plastic plants were appropriate. I have not seen a difference in chameleon health between the two. I know we all have our strong opinions, but before we all decide to issue plastic chameleons to all the lazy people that choose to decorate with fake plants I invite anyone who has done both ways to share their actual experiences with keeping chameleons long term with fake plants. What was the increase in general (or specific) health with the real plant set-up? What was lacking in the fake plant set-up that was fixed in the real plant set-up?
Plastic plants do the job of cover and hydration surface just fine. The increase in humidity with real plants is so slight in a screen cage that if that is what you are depending on there are bigger problems. As far as chewing on leaves, there are few chameleon species that do this. That is a valid reason to have an appropriate plant in the cage. But it goes a bit too far to turn that into a reason to turn the real vs. plastic debate into a black and white answer.
I currently have a number of quads. If there is any chameleon who is unforgiving when it comes to humidity, hydration, or needing plant cover, Quads are up front. Part of my group is with real plants and part is with fake plants. I see no difference in health or behavior between the two groups.
If you love real plants then more power to you. I love them. But I have no evidence to say that they are superior to plastic plants when we are measuring success by the health of the chameleons that live with them. Does anyone here have that direct evidence? I have seen a great deal of passion and judgement, but not relevant experiences. I agree real plants look better. I agree it makes for a more pleasing environment for us, at least. Have a great time with them. I am. But these opinions are not enough to discount use of plastic plants for the people who choose, for whatever reason, to use them.
Bill
Yes, I have heard about humidity creation, water droplet retention, chewing of leaves, and even a plastic poison theory. So have any of you tried plastic plants and failed to keep a healthy chameleon?
I predominantly use real plants and enjoy creating different themes in my cages. I have also found occasions where plastic plants were appropriate. I have not seen a difference in chameleon health between the two. I know we all have our strong opinions, but before we all decide to issue plastic chameleons to all the lazy people that choose to decorate with fake plants I invite anyone who has done both ways to share their actual experiences with keeping chameleons long term with fake plants. What was the increase in general (or specific) health with the real plant set-up? What was lacking in the fake plant set-up that was fixed in the real plant set-up?
Plastic plants do the job of cover and hydration surface just fine. The increase in humidity with real plants is so slight in a screen cage that if that is what you are depending on there are bigger problems. As far as chewing on leaves, there are few chameleon species that do this. That is a valid reason to have an appropriate plant in the cage. But it goes a bit too far to turn that into a reason to turn the real vs. plastic debate into a black and white answer.
I currently have a number of quads. If there is any chameleon who is unforgiving when it comes to humidity, hydration, or needing plant cover, Quads are up front. Part of my group is with real plants and part is with fake plants. I see no difference in health or behavior between the two groups.
If you love real plants then more power to you. I love them. But I have no evidence to say that they are superior to plastic plants when we are measuring success by the health of the chameleons that live with them. Does anyone here have that direct evidence? I have seen a great deal of passion and judgement, but not relevant experiences. I agree real plants look better. I agree it makes for a more pleasing environment for us, at least. Have a great time with them. I am. But these opinions are not enough to discount use of plastic plants for the people who choose, for whatever reason, to use them.
Bill
Denverbug
New Member
Well you can all look down on me. All I use is fake. I have only had my Cham for about five months and have never sat up a terrarium before. I have been debating switching to live. Howevere every week I can completely break down my set up spray everything off and set it back up. This is the reason I have not changed. How do u clean the live plants. My Cham craps like a mad man. There is poo on a lot of the plants sometimes stuck under leaves. With the fakes I can throw everything in the sink and clean every single part of each plant and his whole enclosure in about 45 min. and I do this every saturday.
MelissaB
Avid Member
Honestly, as long as it's making conditions right for your chameleon, I don't feel one way is far superior to the other. It's what works for YOU and your chameleon. I use both, but I have had a plant addiction long before I ever had a chameleon. I think there are certain situations where plastic/fake plants would work better than the real ones. Different situations call for different approaches, doesn't make one right and the other wrong. I love having real plants in my enclosure, but don't think that someone using all fake is lazy or doing any harm to their animals.
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
I've just always been an advocate of all natural enclosures, or as natural as you can get.There are a lot of studies that suggest that keeping live plants or flowers in the home has powerful psychological benefits for humans (This websites provides a quick summary of what I'm talking about: http://ellisonchair.tamu.edu/health-and-well-being-benefits-of-plants/#.UxM3GvldVgg) and I can't help believing that it probably applies to other species as well.
As simplistic as reptile reasoning may be they probably aren't oblivious to the fact that a plant is real or not, and perhaps to some degree chameleons that live in a more natural enclosure are more comfortable, to not use the term "happier." In the same way mood for both people and animals responds better to natural vs. artificial light. So it's not necessarily that it's unhealthy, but we know that natural elements in our environment weigh heavily on our psychological well-being, and I don't think reptiles are significantly different in that aspect.
I cringe even when I see leopard geckos kept in plastic tubs with tupperware hides and paper towel bottoms, thinking of how active, engaged, and curious my own geckos are in a 75 gal naturalistic planted enclosure. So if there's a small chance that keeping things as natural as possible improves my chameleons' mental well-being, makes them more comfortable, and (hopefully!) makes them content enough so that they breed then so be it! I don't judge others, certainly a lot of my chameleon friends are pro-fake, but that's my reasoning anyway.
As simplistic as reptile reasoning may be they probably aren't oblivious to the fact that a plant is real or not, and perhaps to some degree chameleons that live in a more natural enclosure are more comfortable, to not use the term "happier." In the same way mood for both people and animals responds better to natural vs. artificial light. So it's not necessarily that it's unhealthy, but we know that natural elements in our environment weigh heavily on our psychological well-being, and I don't think reptiles are significantly different in that aspect.
I cringe even when I see leopard geckos kept in plastic tubs with tupperware hides and paper towel bottoms, thinking of how active, engaged, and curious my own geckos are in a 75 gal naturalistic planted enclosure. So if there's a small chance that keeping things as natural as possible improves my chameleons' mental well-being, makes them more comfortable, and (hopefully!) makes them content enough so that they breed then so be it! I don't judge others, certainly a lot of my chameleon friends are pro-fake, but that's my reasoning anyway.
Denverbug
New Member
I think that is great reasoning. I'm not pro fake or live. I do like your thought. This is my first reptile so I have no experience in keeping a live terrarium. I have tossed the idea back and forth but came to the conclusion that I really like the fact I can break down the whole cage every week and give it a good scrub down. Is there a way to keep it live and still be able to do this with out killing your plants?
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